: ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA
2011-10-17, 06:40 PM
Welcome to the Forum, Trebor.
Roger1818's advice is sound. Shop around to see who has the indoor antennas on Stampeder's Antenna Chart & they should have a similar return policy for them as well. Then all you have to do is figure out how much coax you'll need to get the antenna at least up to the second floor - running it up the stairs - this is for test purposes after all. Position the antenna as close to a window as possible. Or, move the TV upstairs to the second floor for a few days just to test things out - you'll need less coax that way too. Not all tuners are alike - some are better (and more sensitive) than others. Expect to spend $40 to $100 on the tuner alone (PVR/multiple tuner ones are more expensive).
2011-10-17, 07:23 PM
So...the TV in question is about 300 lbs, it was state of the art in 2004 (Pioneer Elite Rear Projection), but the picture quality is so awesome such that I am not ready to part with it...and I can't easily move it upstairs for tests. One suggestion that someone made was to scoop a new TV with a built in ATSC Tuner (Costco has a Sanyo with 1080i res for under $200) for my test purposes, they have a great return policy so I will be dilligent about keeping all the packing materials. So now I just need to find a retailer for an antenna (most of those that I have found do online only). Does anyone know of bricks and mortar antenna retailers in Ottawa?
Thanks again guys!
Rather than returning an HDTV, maybe you could just buy a $35 (approx) digital to analog converter box (standard definition). It won't give you HD but it will be good enough to show you what channels you get without forcing Costco to take back a whole TV.
Did you post your TV Fool report? The TV Fool is reliable enough to tell you what channels you could expect to get.
We can tell you which channels you'd get based on a rooftop, ground level, attic, or indoor antenna setup.
Go to TV Fool.com and use your exact adddress to produce a report. Post the link here. Chapel Hill is a big neighbourhood with differing levels of elevation so you'll need to use your real address. The address is not displayed on the report.
We can help once you've provided the report.
2011-10-17, 11:05 PM
Is here...I had run that but wondered how high the fidelity was between the report and actual results.
Thanks again everyone for all of your help!
2011-10-18, 12:16 AM
You also need to specify a height, and better yet, use the Online maps option to move the pointer on your house usual the Satellite map, then when height is entered click Radar Plot.
2011-10-18, 12:31 AM
Thanks for the suggestion Falvoie. I reran the TVFool report using a height of 30 ft (probably a bit more in the attic) and then created a radar plot...it gave me this:
Welcome to the forum.
I encourage you to read through two threads so that you can bring yourself up-to-speed on over-the-air digital TV so that we can help you more efficiently and effectively.
Your TV Fool report indicates that you could expect to receive every channel from the top of the list down to the bottom of the pink section with the right outdoor antenna(s) and a pre-amp. If you want more channels lower on the list, you'd have to go to more special efforts such as an antenna tower or roof tripod with a large antenna(s) and probably a rotator.
With over-the-air digital TV there is no "in-between" reception. You'll either get perfect HD reception or you'll get a black screen with nothing. Expect to get all of the channels in quality HD down as far as the bottom of the pink part of your TV Fool report as long as you choose the right antenna setup and locate it outside up high.
If you want to get the US stations, you would need the ability to aim (rotator) or multiple antennas in all likelihood. But local OTAers in Orleans will be able to give you better advice than I can.
2011-10-18, 10:45 AM
Trebor, with the right antenna in your attic and a preamp, you should get all the local channels except Global (CIII). Instead of paying 20-30$ for a junk antenna you will replace, and another 40$ for a junk tuner you will replace, may I suggest you try a Channel Master 4221hd at around 50$ with the Zinwell ZAT-970A. These are not that expensive if you look around, have good sensitivity reports from members here and I am sure would be easier to resell if you wanted to upgrade. If I were you these would be my starting point for best price/performance. Check the link above "Where can I buy", you can search for Ottawa in there.
From there, you could always decide to upgrade the antenna (but likely you won't) and add a preamp.
2011-10-18, 10:58 AM
actually since you have an HD compatible TV, the Zinwell would not be optimal because it would downconvert to SD so you would want to change it eventually. So you can forget i mentioned this tuner. But if you look at the price of a 4221hd vs other antennas, i would definitely start with this one.
2011-10-18, 05:25 PM
I am new to the forum and going through some debug issues. My advice:
(1) on TVFool, use IE (don't use Chrome), start the Maps application, and click on the "Show lines pointing to each transmitter" from your location.
Switch to "Satellite View" and follow the lines to Camp Fortune and Herberts Corners. Check to see if there are any obvious high rise buildings blocking your view.
(1a) Take your TVfool report with a grain of salt. I've lived in 2 locations where everything was allegedly green but have trouble getting signals. I still have trouble getting reception. Buildings, line of sight blockages, and reflections can cause problems.
(2) Read up on the differences of VHF (VHF Lo vs. VHF Hi) and UHF. Ottawa requires both. Some UHF antennas pick up some of the VHF channels. Some VHF antennas don't pick up some of the VHF channels (very easily).
Lead about polar graphs, levels of gain across antennas. I recommend checking HDTVPrimer.com and their antenna reviews.
Select your antenna (or antennas)
(3) Learn about supplementary equipment:
splitters -- how much signal loss they cause
preamplifiers -- how much they improve signals, ones that have separate UHF/VHF inputs, etc.
As you can see the questions are simple, but the answers are sometimes complicated. The quest for higher SNR and gain is what ends up turning many antenna buyers into amateur OTA hobbyists.
I don't have all the answers...I'm just new and these are some of the things I've researched and wish I had researched before buying some of my equipment.
p.s. credit to jimlum for point #1.
2011-10-18, 08:46 PM
So I was able to find my Signal Strength and Signal Quality on my LG TV..
My global CH 6-1 during the day has a SS of 51 to 53% and a SQ between 63 to 65%, but at night the SS goes to 55 to 61%% and the SQ rises to between 75 to 81%. With these results, my Ch 6 is clear with no pixelation.
All 20 other stations I receive all have a signal quality of 99 to 100% and signal strengths between 65 to 92% at all times of the day and various weather conditions
Here is the link to the post with a picture of my setup
2011-10-19, 11:28 PM
I got a second response today from Global to my original complaint about the difficulty of receiving their signal since they transitioned to digital on Aug. 15.
This one is from a different person at Global than the last response I got and it is not a response to my second email to them. They must have multiple people responding to the complaints and they are not cleaning out emails once someone else from Global has already responded. At least this one was more detailed, indicating they had made some "tweaks" and hoped that I was now able to receive their signal. I am able to receive it now but only because I moved my vip302sr outside and it is about 5 feet higher then it was but there are still problems with the signal with occasional blips in the sound and picture breakup.
They give multiple reasons why I might be having difficulty receiving their signal but say nothing about the rather pathetic 3.6kw of power they are broadcasting at (with next to no power going towards the east).
They do though say "In the meanwhile, we will continue to monitor the issues regarding Channel 6 signal reception and evaluate if there are any viable options to solve the issues from our end. To that end, we greatly appreciate your feedback."
2011-10-20, 10:05 AM
jihenry, thanks for the update. I am curious what reasons Global gave you for us having difficulty receiving their signal. I have my own ideas and wonder if they are aligned with theirs.
It is truly annoying. Even with my 302 on the roof and actually very good strength now I occasionally get drop outs on my recordings because of intermittent signal loss. Doesn't happen on any other channel.
I suppose I can't complain too much... since it is free....
2011-10-20, 02:18 PM
wing, you could try to notice if there's someone using a lawnmower or think about any other man-made interference causing your signal drops because of some outdoor impulse noise.
2011-10-20, 02:52 PM
^^^or nearby powerlines.
Drop last night at 10:30 for a few seconds. I'm talking about just a little blip which kills the recording but if you were watching TV you wouldn't care much.
Weather wasn't the best yesterday. ;)
2011-10-20, 03:06 PM
was there any lightning at the time ?
2011-10-20, 04:10 PM
wing, I have occasionally seen that on Global with my Myth box. I only have PC based ATSC tuners so I can't comment on its effect on live TV (other than Myth's watch Live TV function) but my educated guess is the signal has to be out for at least a couple seconds.
I can say when it does happen MythTV stops recording and locks the tuner until the program is scheduled to end or or you tell it to stop recording. Fortunately it doesn't happen very often anymore for me (the last time that I noticed was when watching the provincial election results). I also get more pixelation on Global than any other channel, especially during the evening (CityTV is probably a distant second).
To flavoie's question, while lightning can be a major source of impulse noise (even lightning you can't hear, 100s of km away), I don't think it would interfere with the signal enough to cause this problem (I may be wrong though).
I was in bed so I don't really know but it was starting to rain so it could be.
I wish Myth was more tolerable about these drops though, would be nice if it could keep a dummy stream going at least I wouldn't have to now find another copy of the show.