How close should the pre-amp power source be to your tv? As close as possible to the TV as the included instructions state?

Despite what the instructions say, it doesn't matter how close the power source is to the TV. The most important thing is that you don't have any splitters or other devices between the power source and the pre-amp unless they are specifically designed to pass power (though you have to be careful that they don't also pass the power to other TVs).

Hi,

First time poster - let me say reading these forums for the last 2 months has really whet my OTA appetite! It's not uncommon for my wife to space out as I talk excitedly about our future antenna setup.

Here is my TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b5cf1a654048) report. We're in a bungalow at the south end of Eastvale in Beacon Hill North. Herberts Corners is 2edge for us unfortunately.

For testing, I mounted a CM4221 in the attic and pointed it roughly towards HC. I was able to solidly lock in on the VHF-Hi (9 & 13) stations from CF, and was able to scan all HC channels. CityTV and CHRO were quite spotty, so I decided that I would definitely need to mount on the roof.

There is no hope getting Global off the side of the 4221 like the rest of CF. I ended up making a copper tubing folded dipole cut to channel 6. I mounted this on the chimney last night and now have a consistent 85% signal strength (ss) and 53-55% signal quality (sq) according to my HDHomerun3. I'm not too worried about the ss, but the sq is border line at best. Below 50% sq and the HDHR3 will pixelate or lose lock.

My understanding is that ss has nothing to do with the sq. All of the other CF stations are coming in with very high quality, so what might be interfering with Global? How could I improve our signal quality?

I haven't committed to a setup yet, so my cable run consists of 3 sections of RG6 and is about 15 foot long. Does this have any impact on signal quality or strength?

And while I'm typing, is there any hope of picking up WNPI with a -15dB NM?

I had my CM7777 powered at the TV (after a 3 way split). I moved it to the antenna side of the splitter after I read above. I don't see any difference to be honest.

I am getting a strong signal on 25.1 but no picture..... any idea what is up with that?

CityTV 65.1 is still out today (day 6).

no problems with 65.1. have been watching that channel for the last few days. You might want to re aim your antenna. Still have no luck with Global yet. Anyone in Avalon/Orleans area able to pick up global? If so, please share your setup info.

A few attic adjustments and everything is back to normal including 65.1. The SNR of CityTV was at 18ish.

At the same time I moved my VIP-302 in relation to 6.1. I found that facing it west (in the attic) at a 45 degree angle provided a better signal. The SNR of Global is at 23ish).

Hopefully they hold.

KTG, you may want to ask Flavoie about Global in Orleans.

In Chapel Hill South/Orleans I don't get Global with my vip302sr in the attic, but i have not played with aiming since the transition yet. When I do, I will also add a preamp right next to the antenna, compared to my current setup of the vip302sr output going from the attic onto the roof to reach my cm7777. I am losing some signal there in both not having an optimized aiming and from losing signal by having a long length before the preamp. Some have reported success with outdoor antennas in the east end, but i can't recall exactly where the attic antennas Global channel success stories were located within the East End, if there were any.

Current setup: CM4220 pointed to CF and CM4228 pointed to the right of HC. Both are linked by a bidirectional 2 way splitter on the roof. the coax is 85 feet to my TV. (I'm using a 50 feet outdoor RG6 + another 25 feet RG6 indoors and another 10 feet RG6 to the TV). All local channels are coming in at 90% or more.

My goal is to get PBS (23), CBS and Fox (18) regurlarly for which I always get a glimpse of a signal (10-20%). Tropo nights are good.

1) Should I set the FM trap off?
2) What if I installed the pre-amp after the splitter?
3) What if I used the UHF and VHF coax connections instead of using a combined setup?

I tried to only use the CM4228 connected to the Preamp but results were very poor.

4) What other set up should I try?

By the way Channel Master just came out with a new PVR. Looks very promising: http://www.channelmaster.com/Channel_Master_TV_s/304.htm

Still getting WCFE more reliably than Global (which I have seen working twice). I need to go switch off FM on the antenna (the trap I have is only good enough for channel 7).

Hey Global, you know channel 51 is free, right?

-gmd

51 is not free. But 50, 33, as well as 4, 11, and 12 are.
33 is the best candidate, assuming that TeleQuebec was smart enough to order a 4-port combiner for the combiner that was just fried a few weeks ago. This would allow a channel 33 to share the existing antenna that already serves 30, 34, and 40.

I don't think there is any existing antenna at Camp Fortune that can handle 50 or 51, so using that channel would have a much higher capital cost, plus potentially additional rent to the tower's owner, CBC Transmission.

You can be sure that Global is aware of all the options.

I installed my preamp last night and was very disapointed by the overall results.Based upon your TVFool report, I would say that you are DEFINITELY overloading your CM7777.

Check the following info from holl_ands regarding preamplifiers:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files/ota?p=6&n=1&m=-1&c=3&l=0&w=1&s=0&z=4

Looking at your TVFool report, I think you have about 7 current UHF digital channels above -41.2 dBm from Herberts Corners (disregarding Camp Fortune for now). Your CM4228HD has a gain of about 11 dBd, which brings these to about -30.2 dBm (for each of the 7 signals), far exceeding the maximum input capability of the CM7777. The Camp Fortune signals will only compound the problem.

Current setup: CM4220 pointed to CF and CM4228 pointed to the right of HC. Both are linked by a bidirectional 2 way splitter on the roof.
Sorry, but combining two differing antennae (as opposed to ganging of identical units) using a "bidirectional 2 way splitter" is definitely not recommended, and will provide unpredictable results, which will vary from channel to channel. The problem is that the signals from the two antennae will interact, and not necessarily play nicely with each other. Some frequencies will be reinforced, but others will be cancelled. Since you are trying to receive a wide range of frequencies, this isn't likely to be satisfactory.

My goal is to get PBS (23), CBS and Fox (18) regurlarly for which I always get a glimpse of a signal (10-20%). Tropo nights are good.
I hear you, and have similar goals with my setup. Unfortunately, with the relative directions of Herberts Corners and South Colton, it's going to be tough. You may need a very directional antenna, and a tuner that is very sensitive for weak signals and has outstanding performance for adjacent-channel interference. I have had pretty good results with my HVR950Q pulling in RF21 despite adjacent channel interference on RF20 and RF22.

But I hope that others will chime in with their suggestions.

That tuner looks interesting as I have been thinking of adding some sort of PVR setup to my home theatre system and pulling some of the recording into my Mac for editing (I am a coach) and playback on my iPad for the athletes to see.

Hey KTG,
I have an attic mounted DB8 and a 7778 preamp and get global, don't ask me why I get it over other people.Might just be in a sweet spot.

I just upgraded my antenna installation by adding an extra 10 foot section, moving the DB8 up another 9 feet, installing a Delhi VHF-Lo antenna 5 below the DB8 and a CM7777 pre-amp in between connected with two identical 6 foot RG-6 cables. The DB8 is now about 42 feet off the ground and is pointing at South Colton, NY (156°), while the Delhi is at 37 feet and pointing at CF (286°). I now have 21 channels (13 local and 8 US) all with good to excellent signal strength and no pixelization.

My global 6-1 reception is way better now with the Delhi antenna.
I get all the HC and other CF stations crystal clear.
From the US, I now have 18-1, 18-2, 18-3, 28-1, 28-2, 57.1, 57-2, 57-3 with good to excellent picture quality

Overall.. Now I'm a happy OTA'er as I get all the channels in the green, yellow and red sections of my TVFool report.

I'm in the Glebe, and having trouble pulling in several of the channels, which were coming in okay (e.g. marginally receivable) earlier this summer. I am using a roof mounted CM4221HD and AP-8700 preamplifier about 25' off the ground.

I am having trouble getting 9, 11, 43, and 14 consistently on my Panasonic P50ST30 (50" plasma), whereas my X3 (32" Panny LCD) gets all 3 of them fine and crisp. I have no problem receiving Global whatsoever.

Tonight I spent 2.5 hours taking down the CM4221HD and replacing it with the AntennaCraft HBU-22, with no improvement in reception. The 4221 is back up, pointed at 170 degrees.

Questions:
(1) For those in the Glebe, what antenna/amplifier configuration and position are you using? I am closer to the canal side than Bronson.

(2) The Winegard AP-8700 has an open slot on the underside and some water collected in mine when it blew sideways a few weeks ago. Can I tell if the unit is damaged?

(3) Is TV screen size directly proportional to signal strength required to get a channel?

(4) Anybody have a 28' ladder I can borrow on a sunny day? :)

I have 3 antennas at my disposal (CM4221HD, HBU-22, and SS-2000) -- and would buy another one (or another preamplifier) if it solved my problems. I am hoping to avoid needing a rotor.

~millergd~

millergd, hi, and nice username.

you may want to post your tvfool report here for others to comment on.

Both of your TVs must have great tuners, and with a good preamp like you have all I can think of right now are:

-were all your coax connections done properly, preferably with compression type connectors ? You are losing signal if just one connector in the chain is not done right. Compression connectors and tool are cheap compared to a new antenna; and you already have a good one with the 4221hd.

-any obstructions between you and CF, and between you and HC ?

@millergd

I kinda had the same issue, but mine was opposite. My older Panasonic plasma has never had any issue with tuner related reception. Now my newer 32 Panasonic (not X3 just the base model) LCD needs a 3 dB attenuator @ the television input.
I can't help but wonder if the tuner on your older 50 inch is having issues with overloading, or the run to that set has an issue with the coax.

Good Luck:)

(3) Is TV screen size directly proportional to signal strength required to get a channel?

No. There is no such correlation. However not all tuners are created equal. Some are much better at receiving week signals than others. In general newer designs are better than older ones, but there are exceptions and variations from make to make (and sometimes from model to model).

you may want to post your tvfool report here for others to comment on.Voici! http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b55a591ed3b0
My goal is to get the local Ottawa stations.
-were all your coax connections done properly, preferably with compression type connectors ? You are losing signal if just one connector in the chain is not done right. Compression connectors and tool are cheap compared to a new antenna; and you already have a good one with the 4221hd.I had an installer who does satellite TV do the cabling. The schematic for my TV is pretty simple:
CM4221-> 2' RG6 to AP-8700
3' RG6 coax to ground block (antenna is grounded)
~28 feet coax to F-connector female splice
~35 feet coax to Dynex power passing 2:1 splitter
after the splitter:
Port A: ~10 feet coax to the 50" TV
Port B: ~25 feet coax to the 32" TV

Tonight I took the 32" television downstairs and verified that it can receive the same set of channels on the other coax. Signal strength was comparable.

-any obstructions between you and CF, and between you and HC ?It's the Glebe, there are a fair number of tall trees around and high rise buildings in downtown. However, the positions to magnetic 170o and 322o have a fairly clear line.

I can't help but wonder if the tuner on your older 50 inch is having issues with overloading, or the run to that set has an issue with the coax. The 50" TV was a 05/2011 build, so it's fairly recent.

As for overloading, the first preamplifier I tried was a CM7777 -- I returned it because it appeared to be overdriving all channels; I lost reception for all but CBC 4.1. With the AP-8700, reception is somewhat stronger and I didn't lose any channels with it. For comparison, I have it bypassed (on the pole) right now and the signal is noticeably worse.

When experimenting with the HBU22 yesterday, I got better reception for several channels (including 11-1, which was coming in earlier this summer but disappeared on both TV's). However, the HBU22 lost 30-1 and 40-1 (Camp Fortune), so I went back to the CM4221HD...

cheers,
~millergd~

MillerGD,

Given your TVfool, I don't see any reason why you would be having trouble pulling in all the local stations with a coat hanger. I doubt you even need a pre-amp if all you want is the locals (save for Global).

I would check all your cables, splitters and connection points, not just for tightness but that your coax copper core conductor is actually sticking out of the end of each cable. Sometimes the connectors can come loose without coming off.

If I read your last comment correctly, it sounds like you have tried bypassing the preamplifier to no avail.

millergd, you mentioned a sat installer guy hooked you up. Are you using the coax only for OTA or are you mixing the sat signals on the same cable ?