: ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA
2011-05-31, 01:37 PM
Hello - I've spent the last couple days going through the OTA FAQ and the posts in this thread - certainly a wealth of information! I live in Riverside South, and am eager to get into the OTA world. I'm somewhat tech savvy but am new to the world of antenna design/theory, and note, with some disappointment, that there seems to be no one in the area that does installations (at least not without plenty of begging).
I definitely want to pull in the local stations, including Global (unless it's going to be a giant PITA). Would also like to receive the PBS stations and WNYF/WWNY if feasible. A link to my TVFool results is below:
Roof mounting is possible, although if getting CBS/FOX is going to be too difficult, it might make just as much sense to set up in the attic. I've gone through the decision chart, but it seems as though the HD8800 paired with a VHF antenna may be a good bet. Given that transition is so close, I don't care at all about analog.
So I guess I'm looking for guidance on 1) whether I have a shot at regularly pulling in WNYF/WWNY, and, if so, 2) what antenna setup would be recommended. flavoie's setup is perhaps a realistic goal...
thanks in advance!
Thanks for the info. Surprised that WCFE is LOS, but it is far. Their Wikipedia page states that an upgrade from 55kw to 200kw is pending; I wonder if this is true/current info. I do have to slightly turn the antenna if one of the PBS' is breaking up, they have their sweet spots with my antenna, as does CBC and SRC from CF (all from HC works every way). Perhaps post-transition, I'll re-evaluate my antenna situation; but my wife really isn't keen on those indoor "metal branches" antennas I just showed her (with reflectors, so I'd probably have to take those off as a compromise anyhow). :D
2011-05-31, 09:32 PM
They're nice Metal branches aren't they. Wouldn't they look a lot better in front of a window/patio door, hidden from view with drapes or curtains :)
Their Wikipedia page states that an upgrade from 55kw to 200kw is pending; I wonder if this is true/current info.
Yes. WCFE is licensed for 55 kW but has applied to increase it to 200 kW.
2011-06-01, 01:43 PM
I wrote to WCFE last year about this … they've been waiting and waiting some more for a response from the FCC on the matter.
2011-06-01, 04:09 PM
Hello all - I'm loving this website. I have been using indoor rabbit ears for many months to get HD CBC - it works great 90% of the time but I think it is time I look at a roof mounted (probably chimney mounted) antenna.
I have read the FAQs and came across the suggestion to use tvfool and post the result here for help with analysis. Here's my link:
(I estimated a height of 25ft)
I would like to obtain as many channels as possible. I see that the signals are coming from 2, almost opposite directions. Is this good or bad!? Looking at a satellite map, I don't see any major obstructions (like an apartment building) between my house and the 2 towers, but there are some nearby trees that will have some sort of affect.
Even with the version 7.2 antenna chart in hand, I'm have a little trouble determining the best set up. Any help really appreciated!
2011-06-01, 05:09 PM
hi Darkan9898 and welcome.
If you want the most channels, I'd recommend a Winegard HD8800 for UHF pointed at WNPI with a VHF antenna like the Delhi vip302sr (there are better ones out there too but you may not need it) pointed at Camp Fortune, combined using a cm7777 preamp. The 7777 has an embedded FM trap which is really useful in Ottawa, as well as having a low noise figure.
That would help getting WNPI (PBS). The UHF antenna would still get the channels from Camp Fortune (north) from the back without having to move the antenna around. And of course HC which is almost lined up perfectly with WNPI.
2011-06-01, 05:14 PM
With this setup, your expectation should be you'll get WNPI (PBS) fairly reliably from the US, and local channels coming from those 2 local towers (CF and HC). You may get other channels like WNYF (CBS, Fox) but only during very very good reception conditions. You would not expect to see this channel or other channels lower down that list reliably.
2011-06-01, 05:25 PM
Riverside_South, hi and welcome.
WNYF is a long shot at -11.9. Don't expect to get it reliably all the time. But you may get it with a good HD8800 and cm7777, but it's really hard to know how often. Forget about WWNY on channel 7. You would need a monster VHF antenna to even match the gain of the HD8800 for their respective channels (7 vs 18), and did I mention you'll want to point that VHF antenna to CF anyways to get Global, SRC & CTV ?
If you want to get WNPI reliably, definitely go with a roof install anyways. WNYF once in a while (or hopefully more than that) should only be expected as an extra.
2011-06-01, 06:49 PM
Thats great! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! I'm glad the UHF can get channles from the front and back (I had hoped this was the case). I'm going to read up on these now and get better informed.
2011-06-02, 08:34 AM
Thanks flavoie - that's kind of what I thought. I guess it's time to more closely read the waterproofing thread to see if I can manage a roof install on my own. I'm 95% sure I know who helped you with yours, but I expect he wouldn't be able to accomodate all of the requests he receives.
Just in case, any idea if there is a rule of thumb for dB loss associated with an attic install?
2011-06-02, 10:07 AM
Just in case, any idea if there is a rule of thumb for dB loss associated with an attic install?
From what I've read on the web, expect 10-20 dB attenuation for an attic install, depending on the kind of construction materials the antenna will be looking through.
2011-06-02, 10:35 AM
I'm glad the UHF can get channles from the front and back (I had hoped this was the case).
The HD8800 will significantly attenuate signals received off the back (by up to about 20dB), but the signals from CF are so strong, and the antenna gain is more than 10dB for most UHF channels, that it shouldn't cause you any problems.
Removing the reflector will balance the front and back gain, but will reduce the gain by about 3dB, reducing your chances of receiving the American broadcasts, so I would keep it on.
2011-06-02, 10:48 AM
Darkan9898, Looking closer at your TVFool results, the biggest problem you are going to have receiving WNPI (channel 23) post transition will be adjacent channel interference with CHCH (channel 22). There is only 6 degrees separating the two broadcasts and a 56dB difference in signal strength. You will also have a similar issue with WNYF and CITY. As a result, you may be better off pointing your antenna towards WCFE, but you may need to play with it a bit as the 35 degree separation will put HC close to a deep null on the HD8800.
2011-06-02, 04:29 PM
Thanks roger1818, I'll pull up my tvfool results again as well and have a closer look to make sure I understand the situation better!
6am. (Now 7:45am and WWTI and WPBS finally dropped off)
I've locked in WNPI, WCFE, WNYF, WWNW, WPBS and WWTI on my TV and on my PC(pvr).
All with my 4221HD still. My only change this week was to reinsert the HLSJ I purchased last year (on the same day my Kitz had failed). The repaired Kitz is still in my circuit, but the HLSJ made a huge difference.
I'm currently not using one of the outputs of the HLSJ. Am I right that it should have a terminator?
By the way, I put the HLSJ in because I was experiencing huge overloads that caused CBC to dropout repeatedly over the past few days (must have been the warm weather).
2011-06-04, 09:41 AM
That hlsj must be performing as an fm trap which you apparently need to use in front of Kitz preamps in Ottawa.
Not sure if this is right forum to continue this discussion (although Ottawa does have some unique issues).
I know the FM trap has been the usual recommendation with the Kitz.
My question now is, should I expect the FM trap to improve performance more so than the HLSJ? I recall Mr. Kitz suggesting to you that CBC analog 4 might also be cause for concern with respect to overloading the Kitz pre-amp.
I also don't know if this HLSJ removes FM or not (bought in the Ottawa west store last year). My guess is not totally as I still see some herringbone patterns on some analog channels.
If the CBC analog is the cause, an FM trap might not help.
Should I have both?
2011-06-04, 11:20 PM
Sorry amac i don't quite know what to answer here. Do you have any plans for Global ? You'll want to see what are the overall results and it's impact on Global...
2011-06-06, 05:28 PM
new to this forum, but have been watching OTA tv for years from an old set of rabbit ears.
I am currently doing renovations to my house (including a complete re-wire of all electrical and running cable and ethernet throughout) and thought it would be a good time to set up a roof mounted antenna. I'm a complete newb to antennas though and am looking for any input on what kind of setup I should use.
Here is my tv fool report:
Couple of points. I have run a whole bunch of RG6 cable already, but I may not have done it completely effectively as I didn't really know what I was doing. I ran one RG6 into the attic and poked it out the side of the house with enough length to reach a roof mounted antenna but did not run any electrical. I have since closed up the walls on that side of the house but I could run a new RG6 and power to another location in the attic and just cut off the other one I ran. The original idea was for the cable to run into the basement, where it would be split and run to other rooms from there, but now I wonder about how many I can split off to and still have good reception.
The ultimate goal is to have a non-moveable antenna that feeds several tvs in the house. Any input on how to do it, how many tvs I can expect to split off to, etc would be really helpful. Thanks in advance!