Regarding channel 21 ABC reception from Ottawa. I am in a great position and receive WCFE,WNPI, WWNY & WWYF 24/7 with a HD8800 and cm7777. For two years I have been experimenting with WWTI reception. I have a high gain 8 foot single cut channel 21 yagi pointed at Watertown with a new kitztech preamp with a dedicated coax and tuner. This setup receives 21 regularly late evening during the summer months, otherwise I get it only during tropo periods. I plan to tweak some more things with it (preamp, pointing and height) in the spring but for the moment I have to conclude that it is not possible to receive regular year-around reception of channel 21 (ABC 50) in Ottawa.

I would like to be proved wrong.

After re-reading related threads for receiving WWTI, I came to the conclusion that it is fruitless to pursue my objective of receiving WWTI on regular basis year around as I tend to agree with backpackster. My assessment is that channel 21 is a tropo channel for my case...and that's it.

I'm though puzzled by the report from lima20 stating that he's able to receive WWTI. I'd like very much to hear from lima20 again to shed some light on his reception results, considering that he's geographically very close to my location.

Looking at my own TVFool, WWTI is 19dB worse than WNYF. That's a lot !

I personnally consider this channel Tropo and my TVFool results show it as TROPO as well.

Unless they bump up the power, or I find an antenna which has a 19dB(?) higher gain than my 4228hd at UHF channel 21 (virtual 50.1), i am not bothering with it.

flavoie, you mean 19 dB better gain at channel 21, which is just as unlikely, if not more.

right you are... updated my post accordingly.

My very old Radio Shack antenna (20 years old) finally gave up the ghost this past week with the high winds and several pieces are scattered over the lawn and rooftop. I live near between Metcalfe and Greely (TV fool here: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dda3228e1eb5097). I have a credit with Save and Replay (our forum sponsor) and would like to purchase a new antenna in the next few days from them, in time for Christmas. Any suggestions? I have downloaded and read over Stampeder's decision chart but am wondering which model to get? I want everything :), so I was thinking about a Winegard HD7078P or a CM 4221 HD. What would you recommend? Both my kids watch Global as it has some of their favourite shows and have suggested that I get something that does a better job of pulling in the Global signal? The old antenna (it sure looks like a CM 2018, but probably a clone - still, it pulled in a good signal) still has a solid mount on top of the garage and the cabling was replaced last year.

Thx. Stu

Idea #1
? Winegard HD8200U VHF/UHF/FM combo monster ?
Yes ... will need good solid mount, space, rotor (probably), but this antenna was recommended to me by a Lady Winegard rep. Rates high in the Forum's antenna chart too. I've read some good things about it here and there. [ Long range reception of all channels and FM too ]

Idea #2
Looking at the TV Fool link you provided "Stu's place, All channels"... you've got LOTS of channels LOS - line of sight - from a few different directions, VHF and UHF channels, with positive (+19 dBM or more !) noise margin. That looks pretty good !

You might have lots of luck (good reception of many channels-easily) with a simple OMNI-directional UFO style antenna - placed high up. (OMNI-directional = receives from all directions without the need for a rotor). Some of these dish shaped antennas come with a built-in Pre-Amp and built in FM Trap (blocks out FM radio signals to reduce interference).

If you could somehow "borrow" one of these UFO ant's from someone to setup and try ... before you go and buy one yourself.
Or look for a used one that works ... cheap and inexpensive. Easy to set up and try.

Then ... if results are "GOOD" and to your satisfaction. Buy a good quality one ... and set it up permanently - high up on a strong pole.

Just ideas ...

Wow, that Winegard hd8200 looks like a beast from what I read at save and replay. Stampeder's decision chart though suggests that it works best at Fringe range (60-110km). I was thinking that I was more in the Near Fringe range. What do you think? Will reception be hampered by the antenna being in a closer zone (or, maybe I am just misinterpreting this range thing ...). I also like option #2. Thanks MrVanWinkles!

An HD8200 would be overkill for most people inwards of Fringe range but on the other hand it would drive several TV and FM Radio splits quite well so it should not be ruled out where you are in Metcalfe. Recently a major OTA wholesaler has been offering some new-in-the-box stock of old Delhi 932 antennas out there to certain OTA dealers, so for fringe range one of those would be terrific and would not take so much room. I don't know who would be carrying them in Ottawa. Since you have a credit with S&R I think the 8200 would serve you well for another 20 years. :)

IMHO, antennas that receive FM are a poor choice for Ottawa as Global will have a very weak signal on channel 6 (just below the FM band) from Camp Fortune post transition and the high power FM stations (also from Camp Fortune) will kill it. An FM trap will help but may not be enough, so I believe a VHF-LO Yagi would be the best option (if you don't mind buying an antenna for one station) as the directors will reflect the FM signals away. Unfortunately the options for VHF-LO Yagi's are very limited.

As for the idea of an omnidirectional antenna, the big problem with them is they tend to have extremely poor gain on VHF-LO and probably won't have a chance at receiving Global post transition.

My suggestions are to get either a VHF-HI/UHF combo and combine it with a VHF-LO Yagi for Global or get a UHF only antenna (such as the CM-4221) and combine it with a Delhi VIP-302SR (out of production but available locally) for VHF as it has elements to help block FM (though I don't know how effective they are in practice).

Stu, do you use a rotor or a pre-amp?

Recently a major OTA wholesaler has been offering some new-in-the-box stock of old Delhi 932 antennas out there to certain OTA dealers, so for fringe range one of those would be terrific and would not take so much room.

FYI, the VU-932SR (http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/HD%20&%20VU%20Series.pdf) also apparently has elements to help block FM, so it may also be a good choice. Once again I don't know how well these work in practice though.

To add to Roger's comment of a VHF antenna option, you could even go all the way to a Delhi VIP-307SR as a VHF-only antenna if you want. All the Delhi VIP models have FM blocking elements. You may have some trouble finding some models, but i will echo Roger that the VIP-302SR is indeed available locally in Ottawa.

You can still get them in Ottawa? That's good to know. Last I checked, they weren't available.

What do you think?

[Just realized ... Looks like you're only about 3 miles from Herbert's Corner Transmitter!
That could cause issues. Those signals coming in very strong.]

Yes - the Winegard HD8200U VHF/UHF/FM combo monster is large, and might be overkill for your stated goals. (rotor definitely required I think - to make this unit / this large antenna worth it ...)

The reason I mention the large Winegard combo antenna is: - your location seems to be in a good spot, geographically, to receive signals furthur away from the U.S. (PBS Digital OTA - awsome. FM radio out of North NY State)

"Half way between Metcalfe and Greely Ontario" -you're just South East of Manotick, and Herbert's Corner's Transmitters. This means with a really good antenna and rotor, you could point your antenna Southwards - and take advantage of the rear rejection / front to back ratio of the antenna to cut down the nearby "Ottawa" stations - to help you receive furthur away U.S. stuff to the South if you want to try to.

I mention an antenna with possible long range FM reception because I know of a few good FM Radio stations out of Northern New York state.

esp. Classic FM

WJNY-FM 90.9 in Watertown,
WUNY-FM 89.5 in Utica
WCNY-FM 91.3 in Syracuse

I pick up WJNY FM 90.9 in the CAR along the hwy 401 and usually up hwy 416 to near Kemptville.

http://www.wcny.org/content/view/197/311/

There might also be the possibility for HD Radio - digital FM radio - reception of these stations. You need a special radio for that.

Not a sure thing ... depends ...

But it is not hard for me to imagine ... given your location ... the possibility to pick up good stuff - TV and FM from the U.S. too - with a good setup.

STU593 - did you have any luck picking up anything from the U.S. with your previous setup ? Any interest receiving stuff from the U.S. ?

I don't want to give you any false hopes of reception ... reliable reception OTA depends on alot of things ...

you could even go all the way to a Delhi VIP-307SR as a VHF-only antenna if you want. All the Delhi VIP models have FM blocking elements. You may have some trouble finding some models

That is the kicker. Wade/Delhi stopped making consumer grade antennas a couple years back so finding the exact antenna you want could be a challenge. I recommended the VIP-302SR specifically because a local retailer has some in stock.

Edit: I have found a supplier in the US with a bunch of old Wade/Delhi antennas at a good price, including the VIP-303SR, VU-934SR and VU-935SR (all have elements to attenuate FM) and some cut channel Yagis. Anyone want to do a bulk order?

FYI, the VU-932SR (http://www.wade-antenna.com/Wade/HD%20&%20VU%20Series.pdf) also apparently has elements to help block FM,

Ooops, I just read the fine print and the VU-932SR does not have the FM filtering elements, the other antennas in the VU series do though.

I would get some US stations at times, but very weak. It would be nice to get the PBS stations and maybe some commercial networks for sports, like ABC.

It sounds as if I should do a bit more research and explore the idea of maybe 2 antennas - one for Global and one for the other channels.

For those of you receiving 28.1 and 28.2 (CBS and FOX), I'm wondering if you're seeing some very brief freezing now and then (only video, audio is ok). My reception strenght for wnyf is very good in both of my tuners, but I see this annoying freezing (a fraction of second or so). I do not understand its cause...

I would get some US stations at times, but very weak. It would be nice to get the PBS stations and maybe some commercial networks for sports, like ABC.

PBS should be very doable, as should CBS/FOX (on either channel 18 or 7 as are both the same). ABC however would only occasionally be available as it is too week and too far away. NBC would only be a freak occurrence.

It sounds as if I should do a bit more research

Probably a good idea. I know you wanted something in time for Christmas, but getting it right now will make you happier in the long run.

explore the idea of maybe 2 antennas - one for Global and one for the other channels.

That would certainly be optimal, but the VU-934SR and VU-935SR combo antennas would also be very good options.

Roger1818 or flavoie, any thoughts on post 398? Thanks.