: ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA



amac
2010-10-06, 08:27 AM
Shouldn't EPA point south-east and not south-west based on his TV Fool report?
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1141317&postcount=182

roger1818
2010-10-06, 10:59 AM
Shouldn't EPA point south-east and not south-west based on his TV Fool report?

Ooops, you are right. Must not be getting enough sleep (actually I know I am not).

flavoie
2010-10-06, 11:06 AM
Right, you are, amac.

epa, check your TVFool report and it will tell you exactly what angle to use to pick up the channels you want. Using a compass (while making sure it's not close to metal parts like an antenna), you can quickly have an idea of where to point, then you can tweak the direction based on your reception.

flavoie
2010-10-06, 11:13 AM
epa, your strongest american station from your TVFool report is WCFE, followed by WNPI. By pointing at WCFE, you get PBS. By pointing at WNPI, you get PBS, but also have a shot at CBS/Fox from WNYF in the same tower - if you're lucky, once in a while.

roger1818
2010-10-06, 11:56 AM
epa, your strongest american station from your TVFool report is WCFE, followed by WNPI. By pointing at WCFE, you get PBS. By pointing at WNPI, you get PBS, but also have a shot at CBS/Fox from WNYF in the same tower - if you're lucky, once in a while.

OTOH, for epa WCFE is about 180 degrees (186 to be exact) from camp fortune, so those stations should be picked up on the rear lobe of the antenna and Herberts Corners is about 45 degrees from it, which will put it nicely on a side lobe of an HD-8800 or CM-4228. WNYF is really a long shot and will likely only be receivable on tropo. days.

epa
2010-10-06, 09:32 PM
I pointed the antenna (without using compass) to opposite side of camp fortune (south-west). no difference in the digital stations (still 6). Will try with compass during the weekend. and probably a little higher (20 feet)

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbefae71612b7

mike infinity
2010-10-07, 08:45 PM
wnyf-LD is Massena, correct?

From where I am it looks like it should be a little east of south from a google maps image.

flavoie
2010-10-07, 09:17 PM
correct, WNYF is for Massena, but is broadcasting from South Colton, which is roughly almost the same orientation as Norwood or Potsdam NY.

And if you look at epa's TVFool, it is definitely South East and not South West.

tvlurker
2010-10-07, 10:32 PM
I pointed the antenna (without using compass) to opposite side of camp fortune (south-west). no difference in the digital stations (still 6). Will try with compass during the weekend. and probably a little higher (20 feet)

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9fbefae71612b7
You don't need a compass. Use TVFool's online maps feature, and position the antenna location exactly, using the google satellite mode. Then click on the "show lines to transmitters" check box. You might need to zoom out to identify which line goes to the WNPI/WNYF tower in South Colton. Then zoom back in all the way, and identify landmarks you could se from your rooftop that you could use to line up your antenna. (Say, a house down the street, or some nearby trees.)

epa
2010-10-07, 11:29 PM
Sorry, I meant south-east. I did zoom-out/zoom-in, and pointed the antenna to what I think it should be (probably not exactly, because there are couple of trees). will try more during the weekend.
Thanks again for your help...

skipticum
2010-10-07, 11:56 PM
For the last few weeks I've been experimenting with different antennas to
see if I can improve upon my existing reception from the attic (approximately 24 feet up). Initially I started with a Turk (SS clone) antenna. To my amazement I was not only able to receive all the six existing digital channels at 100% strength but also I was able to receive WCFE-DT with minimum signal strength of 70%. My TVfool results (attached) confirms that I should be able to get WCFE-DT from the attic.TVfool also shows that I may need a roof mounted setup in order to receive CKXT-DT (Sun), WNPI-DT,
and WNYF-DT. WNYF-DT will almost certainly require an outdoor mounting of the antenna. However, CKXT-DT reception was very easy from my attic
(at 100% quality). I suspected that TVFool may not be very reliable, at least in my case, and went ahead and built GH6 (rev2, Jed's design).
Again, I was pleasantly surprised that now I can receive WNPI-DT reliably at about 80% of the time from the attic. Encouraged by these results, I went ahead and built GH10 (rev2, Jed's design). Guess what! I was able to get WNPI-DT reliably at 100% of the time and WNYF-DT at night (with 60% strength). My next step is to built a double GH6 or GH10 to see if I can improve WNYF-DT reception.

My situation does not permit me to mount an outdoor antenna. Given that the GH antennas I've built were very crude (I did not follow the design specs to the letter), I'm very pleased with the results of the GH antennas, but not impressed with TVFool analysis.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da3622d327aeb35

mike infinity
2010-10-08, 01:12 AM
Well, I pointed my antenna toward Norwood/south colton tonight and picked up 28.1 (Fox-SD) and 28.2 (CBS-HD) from Massena right away. I am not sure whether its just a good night tonight. I was getting some minor macroblocking but the signal was otherwise excellent.

I hope these will be two stations that won't just show up on good tropo conditions (ie when I get 50.1 and 50.2 ~50% of the time or less). I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will be as good as WNPI which I get 100% of the time.

Now...if I could only get sportsnet and tsn somehow I would be all set.

roger1818
2010-10-08, 11:17 AM
skipticum, those are very strange TVFool results for sure. I am surprised that it predicts WCFE to be 8dB stronger than CKXT. A couple thoughts though:


The line between attic mound and outdoor antenna required is somewhat arbitrary and can vary depending on other factors.
When comparing two stations with a similar NM, the one that is closer will be more reliable as weather plays less of a role in reception. I am not sure if TVFool takes this into account (I would guess it assumes average conditions). As a corollary, a weaker station that is closer could be more reliable than a stronger station that is further away.


Also, have you tried playing with the exact location of the antenna (using the maps feature) or the antenna height? It could be it is using a particularly bad combination and your antenna is actually in a much better position.

flavoie
2010-10-08, 01:14 PM
mike, WNPI-DT (UHF:23) is at 40kW and WNYF-LD (UHF:18) is at 4kW, so you should expect a lower signal from WNYF. I hope I can get both reliably too.

mike infinity
2010-10-08, 01:24 PM
I tried 28.1 and 28.2 again this morning and they are both coming in just fine. Price is right was on in HD. Still noticed some (quite rare) MB...but I havn't really tweaked my antenna rotation. Perfectly watchable though. I will be interested to see what CSI programs look like in HD on 28.2.

epa
2010-10-09, 03:31 PM
Sorry, I meant south-east. I did zoom-out/zoom-in, and pointed the antenna to what I think it should be (probably not exactly, because there are couple of trees). will try more during the weekend.
Thanks again for your help...
Hi,

Still nothing new, antenna height is 24 feet now. Pointing to south east (without compass).

FatMooze
2010-10-12, 02:49 AM
After reading this thread it seems that downtown living and long range OTA are not a good combination. I have a CM4221HD mounted temporarily on the roof of my two story house with no amp. I am almost directly between CF and HC so get all the local 6 stations fine. Was hoping to get PBS (Norwood) on 23 or 18 but no luck.

Below is my TVFool report. Wondering if anyone downtown (not in an apartment building) is getting any NY based stations ? No way I could put a tower in my yard ;) but would consider more agressive roof mount antenna setups. Otherwise I'll just mount the 4221HD in the attic, enjoy the local OTA stations and ditch the rogers cable.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362311ed0ebb4

BTW, I have the antenna connected to a HDHomeRun box which streams TV to multiple Win 7 Media Center machines and an XBOX 360 (via MCE extender). Lovin it !

roger1818
2010-10-12, 11:56 AM
FatMooze, Hi and welcome!

You certainly are not in the best location to receive American broadcasts. Looking at your TVFool results, you do have some hope of receiving WNPI though. To do so you would likely need:

A higher gain antenna
A low noise pre-amp (depending on the length of your cable run)
A better tuner

Having said this, nothing is guaranteed, and I would hate to see you spend a lot of money and end up being no further ahead.

amac
2010-10-12, 02:05 PM
FatMooze

I've got the same antenna on a roof with 50' cable in 2 pieces (planning to get a single 40' run soon). I get WNPI only at night and it must be a clear night. Here's my TVFool report.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362be4d4f9822

Note, I have yet to see a wisp of WCFE even though my NM (noise margin) is better than that of WNPI.

I'm also still waiting on the retun of my Kitz preamp.

flavoie
2010-10-14, 01:37 AM
Is there any way to catch TFO from Hawksbury or Pembroke from Orleans ? Can't see it from my TVFool results at all. It's likely not intended for Orleans/Ottawa reception. I have a feeling gmd can answer this.

Wikipedia mention Hawksbury with (analog/future digital) of uhf39/uhf31 and Pembroke at uhf17/uhf39 at ERPs of 10kW and 113kW.

I did send TFO a request about transmit power plans a while back but never heard back.

EDIT: found it. CHLF, channel 39 analog -13.7dB SNR... in other words i'll forget it unless they boost the power.