an HLSJ should be the equivalent of a (VHF Low + FM) trap.

Should is the operative word. It all depends where the 3dB point of the high pass filter is. If I were designing it, I would put it just below 174MHz (the lower edge of Channel 7), but who knows if that is what they did.

The other thing to note is the HLSJ isn't certified to pass UHF on the VHF-HI side, but others have said it does. It is likely just that they don't test it at those frequencies.

Nice to know that there is a local supplier of HLSJs though.

I would like to understand how to interpret TVFool information. How does one add individual channel power and determine if an overload can occur. I remember there was a thread from FLavoie that stated when the Kitz would overload but I don't know how to do TV math.

I ask because if I try to filter only FM and VHF-LO, will the remaining VHS-HI channels still be too strong?

Once again, here's my TVfool report
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362be4d4f9822

amac,
My gut is still telling me you're working with lousy TV tuners. Before doing anything drastic buy or borrow a real tv or d2a converter box, point exactly at 18 PBS, and adjust your Kitz amp back to the max.

Your Kitz amp noise level is 0.5 when at max. As you lower the gain, you are raising the noise level. If you talk to Mr. Kitz on the phone he advises to avoid using the gain control if possible.

I know you mentioned overload before. But try it again with a different tuner.

Don't give up.

By the way, your TV Fool report says it is for your postal code - not your exact address. I wonder if it might be helpful to re-do your TV Fool report using your exact address. Don't worry, your exact address is not shown on the report that we all view.

If you think you are also overloading your TV with the Kitz turned all the way up and because there is not much splitting of the signal and not much cable length, you can always add an attenuator before the TV input. Make sure to put the attenuator after your preamp power inserter, or have an attenuator that passes DC power.

Right up front I’d like to state that an outdoor antenna is out of the question for me. Therefore, the best next option is to place my antenna in the attic, and I have done that. The following are my results using A Turk (SS clone) with amplifier (near TV). The antenna is placed at the highest point possible in the attic at approximately 24 feet from the ground level.

I get all the digital local channels (six of them):
CBOT (~90%)
CBOFT (~90%)
Sun (~90%)
OMNIHD1 (80%)
OMNIHD2 (70%)
CityTVHD (95%)

And as a bonus I get,

WCEF (one HD and two SD) (~76%)

At night reception improves dramatically for all channels with minimum quality of ~90% for WCEF. I may add that when the power to the amp is off I lose few of my digital channels, including WCEF. My cable run from the attic to the TV is about 60 feet using RG6 cable.
Now here’s my question. Given the information from TVfool (link attached) for my (exact) coordinates, and the good reception using an indoor antenna (Turk) is it reasonable to assume if I were to build diy 4-bay antenna and placed in the attic I will be able to pull in at least one of the US Networks (ABC or CBS), or is what I got know is the limit of what I can get? I’ll appreciate very much your feedback, before I embark on building my own antenna.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da3627c775c5c0a

Hi and welcome skipticum. I really don't think you will have much hope of receiving WNYF-LP on 18 with an attic mount antenna, especially since your SS clone won't pick up WNPI, which is almost 10dB stronger.

Your results are actually pretty indicative of what TV Fool predicts, saying that WCFE can be received with an attic mount antenna, but WNPI and WNYF-LP may require an outdoor antenna. A better antenna will make WCFE more reliable however, especially in the winter when reception of distant stations gets worse.

skipticum, I understand an outdoor antenna is out for you, but with my outdoor antenna I get wnpi pbs all 3 at 100% all day long along with wcfe plus the digital ones list in my previous post. I am not too far from where you are, and even my analogue stations are decent, global, A channel, cts, chch et al

To recap my situation: I’m in a condo on the 12th floor in the market, facing north. I can receive all of the CF stations with a paperclip, but I was getting nothing from HC with an indoor antenna. I tried other options including the Terk SS clone. That got me City-TV 17.1 for couple of weeks, but then would not pick it up again.

I finally invested in the mini state (actually there’s nothing mini about it including the price or the size) on sale from the Source. Now I am able to pick up all 6 digital channels available in Ottawa, including the elusive 66.1 and there’s also a significant improvement in the analogue signals from HC.

I had almost given up on this one too, but was finally able to find the “sweet spot” in my condo. Although from a décor point of view, the spot isn’t very sweet at all. I like the fact that I can rotate the antenna remotely and I need to depending on the station.

One question I have is whether this antenna might be overkill come next September? I mean in post transition will the digital stations increase their ERP and HAAT as per the IC database? And if that’s the case, perhaps I will be able to receive all channels with a smaller antenna.

On the other hand, if that is the case, may be I’ll have more flexibility as to where I could place the mini state, somewhere more discreet.

One question I have is whether this antenna might be overkill come next September? I mean in post transition will the digital stations increase their ERP and HAAT as per the IC database?


The numbers in the IC database are maximums and some of them don't even make sense. The HAAT is especially problematic as many stations were listed with an HAAT that is higher than the top of the tower they are broadcasting from. While some stations may increase their power a bit, I figure most will stay the same.

My guess is CBC will increase their HAAT and power and OMNI.2 needs to change channels which will help, but I would guess they will still have the same ERP. I am guessing that CITY and OMNI.1 will stay the same however (though the OMNI's could move up to the top of the tower to share CITY's antenna).

The numbers in the IC database are maximums and some of them don't even make sense. The HAAT is especially problematic as many stations were listed with an HAAT that is higher than the top of the tower they are broadcasting from. While some stations may increase their power a bit, I figure most will stay the same.

My guess is CBC will increase their HAAT and power and OMNI.2 needs to change channels which will help, but I would guess they will still have the same ERP. I am guessing that CITY and OMNI.1 will stay the same however (though the OMNI's could move up to the top of the tower to share CITY's antenna).
I'm pretty sure that CITY-DT will increase its power. ISTR that they stated as much in their CRTC application. Post-transition, Tele-Quebec will be vacating channel 17 which will allow CITY to increase its ERP to the east. I'm not sure if TFO in Pembroke was supposed to stay on 17. If it's not a digital allotment, then I don't think it gets any protection from a post-transitional digital station when it continues in analog in a non-mandatory market.

Similarly, TeleQuebec DT in Montreal will be moving from 27 to 26, which will allow OMNI2 to increase its power, as well.

My gut is still telling me you're working with lousy TV tuners. Before doing anything drastic buy or borrow a real tv or d2a converter box, point exactly at 18 PBS, and adjust your Kitz amp back to the max.

Don't give up.


Sorry, was off celebrating an anniversary over the weekend.
Just to update, I tried a new LCD TV with its tuner and had similar results. Oscillating signal strength. When I don't use the Kitz, the six local digital channel all come in between 93-100% with the Cm 4221HD.

Of my 3 tuners, the ATI 650HD has actually come the closest to locking down a PBS channel.

My Kitz then went awry and I've unplugged it hoping that it will settle itself down (it's got a mind of its own).

I'll try again when my roof dries up a bit.

By the way, your TV Fool report says it is for your postal code - not your exact address. I wonder if it might be helpful to re-do your TV Fool report using your exact address. Don't worry, your exact address is not shown on the report that we all view.

When I put in my full address, the results got about 1db worse.

Sorry, was off celebrating an anniversary over the weekend.
Just to update, I tried a new LCD TV with its tuner and had similar results. Oscillating signal strength. When I don't use the Kitz, the six local digital channel all come in between 93-100% with the Cm 4221HD.

Of my 3 tuners, the ATI 650HD has actually come the closest to locking down a PBS channel.

My Kitz then went awry and I've unplugged it hoping that it will settle itself down (it's got a mind of its own).

I'll try again when my roof dries up a bit.



When I put in my full address, the results got about 1db worse.
that's quite possible. I can get variations of up to 3 dB just by moving the antenna location on my suburban lot.

Use your full address in the Online TV Maps feature, and then switch to satellite mode in the Map so you can directly position your antenna in the desired location on your property.

The Google Maps API will always place a street address on the road, and only rarely even in front of the right address. Use the satellite view to get more precision.

Well the sun popped out this afternoon so back up on the roof I went. I confirmed I am pointing the antenna in a reasonable direction to get WNPI/WCFE.

Of course I still don't get either one of them. Signal strength reached a maximum of 71% but the low was 25% so no lock.

I'm pretty sure the Kitz preamp has failed for some reason so I'm taking it out of the equation. That leaves me with the need for a more sensitive antenna ...

I live beside Beacon Hill Shopping Center, at 3rd floor. I made a test on the TVfool and get this result:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3da362c778844634

I plan to buy a TV, targeted TV set is Panasonic Plasma 42”.
Would seek help on what antenna is good for me? I see people mention FactoryDirect or Source. I may also get one there. But have no knowledge of what kind of antenna to choose.
Also is the TV set a good one for receive OTA TV channels?

welcome vwei1234, I suggest a brand name antenna compared to the clones you'll find at Factory Direct and some other places. The Source will have some antennas, but likely not the best tried and true, best-results models as recorded under the antenna chart here:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=97121

Then as far as stores are concerned, the only store which you'll find great brand name antennas (from the antenna chart) in stock is in the west end:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1144738&postcount=737

I can't even detect Fox and CBS now:(
Oh well, at least now I know there isn't a black hole directly at my house :)
I'm thrilled to finally see WNPI. Even if I lose it tomorrow, I now know a few upgrades will get me to my goal!

And with the arrival of Netflix our choices get even broader.

Good night!

amac, this is a good night. I'm seeing a bit of signal on channels 7, 21 and 41, with the antenna pointing about 40 degrees East of Watertown.

Let's see what happens to WNYF-LD tomorrow morning at 8:30.

-gmd

WNYF-LD is on the air. Signal in the 70s. As this appears to be a good night, let's wait before claiming victory...

-gmd

The morning continues to be a "good day". I'm getting 11 digital channels, including WNPI, Fox and CBS!

Time to read up on modding the CM4221.

WNYF-LD is still coming in almost at strong. I don't think it will fade at 8:30.

Are they broadcasting at their full 'intended' power?

-gmd