Its a good proposal if there was a sufficient audience that was still receiving the bulk of their television off-air in Utica and Watertown. Cable penetration as well as satellite is very high in these regions. I highly doubt two media companies would come together for the sake of a tiny off-air segment of the marketplace. However, if WKTV and WWNY were owned by the same companies...then we would likely have a different scenario.

Granted i would love an NBC in Watertown....but they are only 60 miles from Syracuse and many people in their western and southern viewing area can pick up WSTM on their antennas. Same with Utica...WHEN (CBS) out of Syracuse is viewable by a lot of their area as well.

"The proposal was to get the two channels together and similcast the other on a subchannel in each market, for OTA broadcasts. They could also simsub local commercials in their respective market. It was an opportunity for the two channels, in each market, to have some say on commercial content, that the satellite providers would not allow to happen. Maybe it's time to try another letter campaign to see if they want to pursue his avenue."
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The towers in Syracuse are south of the City and are about 80 miles from Watertown. There is also the problem of the Tug Hill that blocks many in the Watertown area from Syracuse. Many would probably have a better chance at seeing Utica, before Syracuse. I just wish that an NBC affiliate would move into the Watertown/Fort Drum area and solve the dilemma.

I was checking my transponders, on Directv, and see that they have started to add locals for the Watertown DMA. For now, they have only added 3 channels. WNBC, WABC and a generic PBS for the Watertown area. I guess this means that all of the stations, save WWNY and their LP FOX affiliate, granted waivers for their area. That may answer the question on what NBC affiliate will be used for Watertown, by Directv. WWTI, has been fed programming from Syracuse for a while, so the only thing lost has been the commercials and the CW subchannel. I guess the idea of adding NBC Utica for Jefferson and Lewis Counties and NBC Plattsburg for St. Lawrence County, is now off of the table.

TV Fool: (w/ tower)

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf43b088e4a24

W/40 ft Tower
(ant./pre-amp/rotor? broke yrs ago):

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf46d22dd7a92

If I just wanted local,would something like the Winegard MS-2000 Omni Ant. be good enough?

Then,have a Antenna Direct Xg91 facing ESE for Rochester,NY?

or, that omni directional UHF bowtie w/ 2 adjustable panels?

I think those ‘saucer’ antennas are not worth it but just for local (12, 18, 27,44) probably. I am just west of you and use XG91, works well but remember 10, 13 are hi-vhf. I have separate antenna for those. Don’t sell yourself short, add a rotor, preamp, and get Buffalo and Syracuse.

If TVfool can be considered accurate for your location, you're going to have a very tough time pulling in anything from Rochester. The signal just isn't there for 10 & 13. Even if you wanted to go to heroic efforts to try to pull them in, you'd have to have a 15dbd+ antenna, which for channel 10 and 13, would be massive.

My TVfool lists Rochester as tropo with less signal than ITpro and I get them just fine with XG91 which has the gain to do it. No heroics needed ITPro just use the best stuff hook it up well, dont cheap out and it's your best shot for US TV.

Wilspin, noticed you have tinlee filters. Which channels are you filtering?

Had them made special order 12 & 18 and each blocks the entire band of the other. Without them, with an amp, they wipe out adjacent channels.

Hi all, I've been lurking for a while now trying to get "up to speed" on OTA. It's amazing how much you forget after having cable for a few decades. ;)

My TVFool results (http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d3cf4082f3f80d5) look promising and I know that with a simple set of rabbit ears we pickup a fair number of the local Ottawa SD channels.

What I'd like to know is if it's reasonable to expect getting the US channels reliably. I don't currently have anything, no tower, no antenna, no ATSC tuner and no HDTV. I'm a clean slate looking for some recommendations and the best part is the wife fully supports this. :)

Thanks!

What I'd like to know is if it's reasonable to expect getting the US channels reliably. I don't currently have anything, no tower, no antenna, no ATSC tuner and no HDTV. I'm a clean slate looking for some recommendations and the best part is the wife fully supports this. :)



I'm in south Kanata and I pick up PBS, CBS and Fox reliably. Looking at your TVFool report, I'd say you have a chance of also getting ABC, if you're careful about your setup.

What I'd like to know is if it's reasonable to expect getting the US channels reliably. I don't currently have anything, no tower, no antenna, no ATSC tuner and no HDTV. I'm a clean slate looking for some recommendations and the best part is the wife fully supports this. :)I'm just west of you and you might be surprised at what you would pick up with just a modest set up. I started with my CM4228 on a small mast on roof top and aimed it south to lock on the NY state channels 21-3 21-4 16-1 16-2 16-3 28-1 28-2. Then I was pleasantly surprised to see off the back side of antenna I got most of the Ottawa stations.

Once I added a rotor to my tripod mount and a 10' mast I get everything on the air within approx 85 miles.

Whatever you decide to invest in, welcome to the club. We have been satellite bill free for over a year now and loving it.

I know pre-digital, this area was well known to get pretty much everything from northern NY. Wasn't sure if this was still the case now.

We dumped the dish in the summer and don't miss it very often. Streaming online video is fantastic most of the time but this UBB stuff going on now has me thinking I need to have a backup (or maybe the streaming should be the backup). :)

A question about Global on channel 6 - I don't get 6 with the rabbit ears and I keep seeing references to FM traps on here. Is this a common problem in the Ottawa area with Global?

I can get all the US channels that Mr. Vanwinkles gets, plus Ch 35 (28.1), which seems to be a duplicate of 7.2, plus Ch 11 analog. Ch 6 from Deseront, at 29 miles, is very weak and snowy.
However, I have great difficulty in getting Ch 38 TVO, altho it is only 4.3 miles N of my house, I live 1 km west of Queens University. There is a house blocking the line of sight. I am thinking of getting 50' of coax and putting a bowtie on a fence, clear of the blocking house. Or is TVO too weak?

Jivany, Couple of thoughts;
Reliably means spend some money. CBS best bet, then PBS & ABC.
I don’t think there’s any way you will get Fox or any thing at 130+ miles except maybe during summer tropo conditions.

wilspin, it's not obvious from the TVFool but WNYF-LD is Fox. I'd be very content getting Fox, CBS and PBS. These all seem possible given comments from people in Ottawa 30-35km further away from those transmitters than me (like jrmclean). Getting ABC (WWTI) with a NM of -13.9dB might be tricky.

I have no problem with spending money on a decent setup, I just need some help knowing where to wisely spend it, hence why I'm here. :)

My short term plan right now is to get a CM4221 or possibly a CM4228 and put it in the attic for now (about 25' from ground level). Then, in the spring hopefully moving to a mast to give me ~35' from ground level.

Another question:

Is my metal roof going to kill my short term plan? I'm lucky that most channels I want are N or S and my roof ridgeline runs roughly NNE/SSW. I do like bowhunter's comment about picking up Ottawa off of the back of the CM4228. Is it possible that the roof may actually improve my chances by acting as a reflector? Guess it might be time for me to pull out my old Fields & Waves text books/notes. Ugh! Maybe I'll just buy the gear, try it and hope for an early spring. :)

A metal roof can be a real wild card for far away signals with an outdoor antenna - usually it messes them up, but sometimes it can actually be beneficial. It is very difficult to predict how it will affect each situation. Aluminum siding is a real question mark too.

For an attic antenna a metal roof is definitely a no-no since it is effectively a partial Faraday Cage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage). :eek:

Yup metal roof may not allow it to work well. 13.9db is easy with the right stuff and quality install. I get most of these channels starting at -15.2db to -35! Ok some after -30 not always.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3de07cdabdfeea42

I know a while back we discussed Trying to get WWNY to carry an NBC station as a sub channel. I know a few of us sent emails to the respective stations.
However it's pretty clear that getting an NBC station in Watertown is not going to happen. However what about a different sub channel like RTV, THIS, or something else? I know I'd personally love to get RTV here.

After Syracuse ...The next possible NBC - Over the Air - for me in Kingston is out of Rochester NY.

From my Kingston's TV fool:

adj/co-warn Callsign Real Virt Netwk NM(db) Pwr(dBm) Path Dist Azimuth City

c WSTM-TV 24 (3.1) NBC 6.4 -84.5 2Edge 92.3miles 165 deg (180deg) [Syracuse NY]

a WHEC-DT 10 (10.1) NBC -11.8 -102.7 2Edge 93.3miles 214deg (227deg) [Rochester NY]

WHEC-DT NBC 10 (10.1) Rochester NY- we've picked it up in Kingston before, in the past, probably under special conditions - like maybe Tropo.

From Kingston, Distance is about the same as Syracuse, both are given as 2-edge path. Power and noise margin are a fair bit lower for Rochester.
co-channel warning "c" on WSTM. adjacent channel warning "a" on WHEC
[adj warning on WHEC is probably due to CKWS (CBC) TV's rf 11, powerful local, 74 degrees to the side / difference in direction from WHEC]

BUT ... WHEC-DT NBC 10 (10.1) Rochester NY is on VHF-HI real 10.
(difference/possible advantage in propogation/bending for the VHF hi signal - compared to WSTM's UHF signal out of Syracuse)

AND ...

Path from Kingston to Rochester goes more over LAKE ONTARIO - for much of it's distance.

NBC Syracuse in Kingston - does not come in regularly or well w/current setup.

Wonder if it's worth trying for NBC Rochester rf 10 - given the numbers and info on TV Fool.

(past knowledge - we've had NBC Rochester come in before, in Kingston - in the past - special conditions ... and I think I've gotten it recently too - on a less than ideal UFO antenna on the tower)

NBC Rochester rf 10? Worth a shot / an attempt from Kingston? on 40 ft tower?

Those West of Kingston - ex Napanee or Belleville or Picton / Prince Edward County - probably have a much better shot at NBC Rochester rf 10.

Anyone in the region, out there, getting NBC 10 out of Rochester? How are you doing with that one? Where are you located? What sort of Equipment and setup are you using?

Seems unlikely, at this point, NBC's gonna make any changes ex. rebroadcast on someone else's subchannel - more neaby ... so what'd y'all think about a shot at getting NBC outt'a Rochester on VHF hi 10 ????

I'm thinking like - a massive long ch10 attic yagi - 2 storey house, on a higher Kingston geographic location, with open attic, relatively clear view to the south west - attic pointing lengthwise / diagonally SW in the WHEC direction.