So a preamp is required for the 4221?

Maybe I should just go with an 8 bay no amp.

To get Watertown, no preamp needed if you are pointed correctly. My big problem is the powerful transmitters 2km from the house that I have to shoot through to get the States.

8 bay would be good too, pointed towards Syracuse you should be able to get Watertown off the side as they are usually green and yellow here in Kingston. I would add a preamp and I would plan for some sort of VHF antenna for 2 and 6.

I do not think 2 and 6 are worth the effort but we will do it in stages assessing improvement as we go. First just the bow tie, than add vhf & amp if it’s not good enough.

In my house it's totally worth the effort. With only 9 channels from the states on most days, having CTV and Global is needed. In those 9, 3 are pbs, 2 are fox, 1 is music so I have ABC, Fox, and CW for networks. CBS is no where to be found and NBC is difficult this time of year for me to get.

Why I can't get WWNY is beyond me, I'm guessing it's interference from CKWS.

rlongfield, could you post your TVFool results and a description of your setup? Maybe we can help you pull in WWNY.

In my house it's totally worth the effort. With only 9 channels from the states on most days, having CTV and Global is needed. In those 9, 3 are pbs, 2 are fox, 1 is music so I have ABC, Fox, and CW for networks. CBS is no where to be found and NBC is difficult this time of year for me to get.

Why I can't get WWNY is beyond me, I'm guessing it's interference from CKWS.
3 are PBS? OK good point. I will rethink it.

Rlongfield: Are you able to get 2 and 6 now and if so, its weird you can't get 7. I have a VIP302SR sitting in my shed waiting for me to do some work with it. *edit* oh yeah, and a Channel 11 jointenna - you could strip CKWS out (not completely, but notch it some). Do you want to try my gear and see how it works for you?

Here is my TV Fool report: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d67d93040ffaf42

I'm sure the antenna has a lot to do with the channels I get. I currently have el-cheapo DW 4221 knockoff (it's a 4 bay). Although I was getting 7 no problem.
I'm also running a Channel Master 7777 pre amp.

The 3 PBS I speak of are the SD, Think/Bright and HD, so really it's 2.5 channels because occasionally the SD and HD are not broadcasting the same signal.

I haven't tried to get CH2 yet but I was getting CH 6 (fuzzy but watchable) when I had my antenna hooked up to my old CRT TV. I haven't gotten my analog tuner card working in my media computer yet.

You and I have the exact same antenna, but with a channel master 7777, you are probably overloading. I know whenever I throw an amp on things here, I lose channels, not gain. The only amp I am using is a crappy 10db booster inside the house. Also, The 7777 can be setup for separate VHF and UHF antennas or one antenna. Check the switch in the pre-amp. If it is set to separate, that would make sense as to why you lost 7. Channel 11 will come in for you with a paperclip. For you, you need the combined setting and the FM trap turned on, unless you want to use the antenna for distant FM radio.

I haven't touched the switch and since I was getting Ch 7 in the summer I know the switch is in the combined position. My antenna got spun in the big wind storm a few months back and I think I reset it more towards Watertown than Syracuse now (more east, less south).

I bough the 7777 to help pull-in WSTM and ION.

Perhaps if I pick up another one of these antenna's when they go on sale and the roof is less slippery, point one at Watertown without the preamp, and one at Syracuse with the pre-amp if that might solve the problem?

The 4221 is a UHF antenna and WWNY is on VHF. As tlamothe said, you will be able to pick up CKWS with a paperclip so even a UHF antenna would work for it, but WWNY is quite a bit weaker, and thus would be intermittent. A small VHF-HI antenna (even a pair of $3 rabbit ears from the source) should solve your problem. More thought will be needed if you are also wanting to receive channels 2 and 6.

I wouldn't add the second antenna. I get WWNY with mine at 80% or so. It is my strongest watertown station with the 4221. Why don't we try adding in the my channel 11 jointenna to lower channel 11 signal so it doesn't over load the antenna?

Certainly worth a try. My leaning is to use the right antenna for the job though. The CM-4221 has a negative gain on VHF and the gain is very non-linear (about -8dBd on 11 and -17dBd on 7, though rlongfield has a clone so it will perform differently).

OTOH, rabbit ears tuned to channel 7 (84" long with metal eye protectors removed and at 180 degree separation) should have close to neutral (0dBd) gain on channel 7 and about -2dBd gain (i.e. a 2dBd loss) on channel 11. This configuration will also have reasonable reception on VHF-LO (probably about -2dBd on ch.6 and -5dB on ch.2) and a fairly wide beam width.

Extending the rabbit ears further (as well as keeping the metal eye protectors on) will improve channel 2 reception, but may have negative effects on the other channels (especially channel 11).

I was getting WWNY just fine until the windstorm and I reset the antenna. If I was getting WWNY off the side of the antenna before would the signal be weaker? If the CM7777 is overloading the signal now perhaps the signal was weaker before and the 7777 wasn't causing an overload?

11 CKWS, 32 CBC-F or 38 TVO is causing the overload.

I'd be happy to come over and give you hand if you want. I don't mind helping a fellow OTAer.

tlamothe, don't forget the CM-7777 has separate internal amplifiers for VHF and UHF (even when using a combined input), so it is unlikely that any UHF channels are causing overload problems on 7 (unless it is an amp inside the Tuner that is overloading).

Roger, Even in a combined mode operation, both tuners are separate?

CKWS tends to cause a lot of issues as well. He is lucky in that the two local uhf are behind where he is pointed to but he needs to almost shoot through the CKWS tower to get Watertown.

I assume you mean amplifiers, and yes. I have looked at the schematic and in combined mode it band separates the signal, uses the separate amps and then band combines the signal again. It is actually quite simple as even in separate mode it has an LPF on the VHF amp and an HPF on the UHF amp, so it is just a matter of switching the VHF amp between the VHF and UHF inputs.

Yes I meant amps. oops.

I am thinking rlongfield's issue is CKWS or a bad connector. I can get channel 7 with my crappy 4221 clone no problems. He has the amp set to use a combined input. It just stopped working when the antenna got moved in a wind storm.