Mrvanwinkles and princeLH thanks for the responses, with the first TVFOOL I posted I diddnt put any values into the height.

I have a clothes line post in the back yard that I can mount from wich is approx 25 feet tall, so I re-entered the info into the tvfool search and heres what it came up with with 25 feet of height: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b5be1c46ebf7

also were only about 6 - 8 miles from odgensburg.

Dan.

Hi,
I currently have a Winegaard 8200HD with a CM7777 preamp, north of Kingston. 35ft tower.

I'm able to get local stations and Watertown/Carthage stations, and SOMETIMES can get Syracuse stations if I'm lucky.

I am considering following the advice in the sticky from Stampeder for ultra long range reception, and doing the following:

Use my 8200HD only for VHF
Use a pair of stacked CM 4228HD's (modified per the modification thread)
Run these into a UHF/VHF combiner

My hopes would be to pick up the Syracuse stations reliably, increase reliability of existing stations, and possibly pick up an extra station or two (maybe Rochester?).

Do you think a stacked pair of 4228HD's will significantly outperform the UHF section on my existing 8200HD combo antenna?

Thanks for any insight that anyone can provide....

(PS - part of the club that is grumpy about stations in this region that didn't go digital!.....boo!)

I'm able to get local stations and Watertown, usually PBS, and SOMETIMES can get Syracuse stations 50.1 and 50.2 if I'm lucky.



We'd need a TVFool link for your location to offer specific advice, because we'd need to know how well you would get 21(50.1/50.2) and 41(16.1/16.2/16.3) if you were pointed off access towards Syracuse.

Note that 50.1/50.2 IS Watertown.

We'd need a TVFool link for your location to offer specific advice, because we'd need to know how well you would get 21(50.1/50.2) and 41(16.1/16.2/16.3) if you were pointed off access towards Syracuse.

Note that 50.1/50.2 IS Watertown.
Hi,

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b5ce5bb50476

I didn't realize 50.1/2 is watertown. That doesn't give me great hopes for Syracuse if I can barely get 50 now.

Wanted to mention:

From Kingston, Ontario, have been Receiving TVO - TV Ontario - in *Digital* from Belleville - reliably. Usually around 60% or 70% on the signal meter.

That's approx 72 km / 45 miles straight line distance. Kingston to Belleville.

26-1 rf 26 TVO - TV Ontario out of Belleville Ontario.
(Province of Ontario - public broadcasting network - good content, few commercials)

TVO in *DIGITAL* - from Belleville is coming in consistently well and reliably in Kingston. At least in my case.

[off of an old Radio Shack / Antennacraft, 21 inch UFO omni directional antenna, w/ built in pre-amp and fm trap, 30 ft up just above roof level, 2 storey house, Kingston, Ontario, mounted off the side of the tower]

TVO does broadcast a local channel in Kingston, but still in ANALOG, conversion date I don't know. CICO-TV Analog 38 Kingston - Operational, and pretty strong locally in Kingston.

Good content programs etc. and Yes - Receiveable in Digital OTA in Kingston, from TVO's Belleville transmitter.

Hi,

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b5ce5bb50476

I didn't realize 50.1/2 is watertown. That doesn't give me great hopes for Syracuse if I can barely get 50 now.
No chance at getting Syracuse reliably. you need to work at getting WPBS and WWTI reliably before you try for Syracuse stations down in the weeds!

I would say go for a rotor normally pointed to Watertown, and then you can try for Rochester or Syracuse (and even Ottawa) when the weather is right, without investing a lot in specialized antennas that won't pick anything up most of the time.

In that case, forgetting about Syracuse...... knowing now that I cannot get those upstate NY (WPBS, WWTI etc) stations reliably even despite the big 8200HD and CM7777 + rotor (which is a pretty well regarded combo), do you still think it is worthwhile to move to the stacked 4228HD's for UHF? The cost is not really that huge, but I don't want to waste the time and effort if it's unlikely to provide much improvement over my existing rig.

Too bad I'm not closer to lake Ontario.

In that case, forgetting about Syracuse...... knowing now that I cannot get those upstate NY (WPBS, WWTI etc) stations reliably even despite the big 8200HD and CM7777 + rotor (which is a pretty well regarded combo), do you still think it is worthwhile to move to the stacked 4228HD's for UHF? The cost is not really that huge, but I don't want to waste the time and effort if it's unlikely to provide much improvement over my existing rig.

Too bad I'm not closer to lake Ontario.
Hummm.....you should be able to hit those two Watertown locals and Syracuse on a good day. When you hooked up your 7777, did you employ the FM trap? You may be getting some overload from a close by FM transmitter that is knocking down your signal. I had a similar problem, here in Belleville, and turned on the FM trap and it made it work much better. Just a possible solution you might try.

One other think.....make me chairman of the board, against those lazy, cheap bastards who didn't want to go digital, in this area. Been hammering them with E Mails, ever since.

jsb1123456

Unfortunate.

But according to your TV fool, you're only 20 miles or so North of Kingston? So ... I am guessing it must be your local conditions, height, or the terrain between you and the Watertown transmitters.

North of Kingston, where you are - maybe you're in a valley - or there are hills or high ground between you and Watertown transmitters.

Your noise margins NM are actually negative for WPBS 16-1 and WWTI 50-1 and 1 edge and 2 edge, distances around 62 miles. Hmmm - you'd think you would have better numbers for those two stations - but it seems not.

I would see if it is possible to investigate the terrain / topography between your location and Watertown. See if that might be the reason.

Syracuse would be difficult for you. It's difficult right in Kingston. Distance (round 90 miles +) and 2-edge. But still comes in sometimes. Others round Kingston have better luck with Syracuse than me - I think.


Patience...

jsb1123456 and Prince LH ... Be patient with the Kingston broadcasters going Digital - I suspect it might be a couple years, and then they'll want to join the Digital converstion all by themselves. They'll see the benefits, and realize that in order to stay competitive, that they may have to convert ... otherwise the viewers will tune in to their favourite programs elsewhere - and they'll lose viewership and sponsors. Just give them time. I suspect the situation is the same in many other smaller markets / towns / cities.

PrinceLH and mrvanwinkles, thanks.

I do indeed have the FM trap on. I just checked Google Earth and there is high ground in my line of sight that would require that I have a 140ft tower to clear..... This must be the issue. It's several km south from my location. :( This must be causing my Watertown issues. However, Syracuse is on significantly higher elevation than Watertown, so my hopes are not lost for it on a good day.

Given this, I can see now why I've been having troubles. I'm still contemplating the stacked antennas which may help a bit with stability of Watertown.

Thanks again

TVFool makes it easy to see the terrain between transmitter and you - click on a station in the table and there you go!

I can't believe I didn't know that. That's very helpful. Thanks Dave

Slightly off topic, but relevant to the Watertown stations, there is some news. They've finally been uplinked by Directv today. Surprising enough, the NBC affiliate that many speculated about was one nobody thought or talked about. WHEC out of Rochester was added as the NBC affiliate for Watertown. WPBS is in SD only, as is the CW affiliate. WWNY, WNYF, WWTI and WHEC are in HD. Being able to receive them all over the air, myself, the picture quality seems duller on the Directv feed and the Over The Air signal is truly superior. I know that it's uncompressed OTA, but some of the other Directv feeds, like for example FOX News HD, is very good, compared to the uplinked locals.

Ya, north of Kingston - Terrain / topography - complex.
Rideau lakes system. Many other small lakes. Hills and valleys.
Receive conditions round there - North of Kingston - must be very dependent on your exact position / situation.

Being from Kingston area - I've been around those areas. Driven around those areas.

Not so long ago, month ago maybe, I drove across - I think it was - Sunbury Road. From Hwy 15 took Sunbury Road in a west direction. I think.
You reach a point on Sunbury road where you rise and rise and rise up to some height on a hill. Must be the high ground on the hills - between the lakes. Reception up there ... I wonder.

I Took a look at google earth around North of Kingston. But you've got to really zoom in to see topographical lines. But then you lose larger perspective.

Would like to see a good large hard copy Topographical map of the area ... would be interesting to see. Maybe next time in the library.

Interesting to note: Where the large transmitter towers are placed.

They've finally been uplinked by Directv today.

So someone with DirectTV [Sattelite Service] can view those channels now?

Those locals are available on DirecTV? Hmmm. Interesting.

Interesting to hear the comparison of the Picture Quality you've mentioned.
Great that you are able to provide that comparison.

I'm near Maberly, about 40 miles north of Kingston (50 miles south east of Ottawa) and today (cloudy conditions)I can get

7-01 WWNY - HD @ 68%
7-02 WWYF @ 68%
16.1 Watertown PBS @ 68% Strength - no pixalation
16.2 Watertown PBS Create @ 68%
16.3 Watertown PBS ei (Kids) HD @ 68%
50.1 WWTI-DT MyABC @80%
50.2 WWTI-DT CW @ 80%

Rotating my rotor north towards Ottawa I get

4.1 CBOT cbc @95
13.1 CJOH @80
024 TVO @ 95

and in French

30-01 CIVO-DT @ 86
40-01 CHOT @ 74

I have a CM4228 antenna,a Channel Master CM 7777 Titan VHF/UHF/FM High Gain Preamplifier with Power Supply and a CM rotor.

I'd had no success get Global TV (old channel 2) in digital :-(

but can use my CM4228 for hazy analog reception to watch Survivors.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d60b58ec9d22d52

So someone with DirectTV [Sattelite Service] can view those channels now?

Those locals are available on DirecTV? Hmmm. Interesting.

Interesting to hear the comparison of the Picture Quality you've mentioned.
Great that you are able to provide that comparison.
Yes, I was a bit disappointed in their picture quality. WPBS in SD, but widescreen, with piller box is kind of stupid. CW has always been in 4 x 3, so it's pretty much the same. Dishnet was using the NBC affiliate out of Utica, for Jefferson and Lewis Counties, and Plattsburg NBC for St. Lawrence County. I was expecting either Syracuse or Utica, due to their tight spotbeam technology. Seems strange that they would use a local over 100 miles away, instead of one that is on their boundary. They were uplinking a generic PBS SD, plus WNBC and WABC out of New York in HD, for the last 10 months, with no FOX or CBS in the Watertown locals package for the Watertown DMA. The Rochester spotbeam must be quite large. It's OK to use them in a pinch, but I prefer the pristine low compression signals of OTA. I get Watertown, at 60% for WWNY and 75% for WWTI and WPBS. WNYF is around only 75 days a year, due to their low power transmissions. Almost like tropo for me. WHEC Rochester is in at 60%, thanks to it being VHF. All of them are in year round, in the Belleville area. The Rochester UHF's are another story. WUHF is in about 300 days a year and WROC is in about 150 days a year. VHF is more stable year round.

Mrvanwinkles, I suspect the high point is the Jamieson road (it runs between Harrowsmith and Sydenham. There are some towers there.

Mummmm....Harrowsmith....great cheese factory there. I visit it often. How close are you to that Cheese Factory? Maybe I'll take a look at your setup, if I drive by.....

jsb1123456

Would FTA - Free to air satelite - be of any help to you?

Given that regular, terrestrial, OTA, regular over the air reception is more difficult in your exact location?

There is a whole section on FTA satelite in the Digital Forum.

Not sure. I'm no FTA expert myself. But you may want to check it out. You may be able to get some channels you like that way - from FTA satelite.