It wouldn't be difficult to provide English hockey commentary by using an English audio sub-channel on the French network. That wouldn't work for most of the programming but HNIC on CBC and SRC is basically a duplicate video feed with different audio in some markets. That's getting OT though.

Radio Interview with Steven Guiton here:

http://www.cbc.ca/quebecam/2011/06/13/changes-to-analog-signal-for-cbc/

^^^^
This is an excellent argument for using subchannels. The CBC could carry both English and French networks on all digital transmitters.

It wouldn't be difficult to provide English hockey commentary by using an English audio sub-channel on the French network. That wouldn't work for most of the programming but HNIC on CBC and SRC is basically a duplicate video feed with different audio in some markets. That's getting OT though.
Didn't SRC lose hockey to RDS?

This mess could be avoided.Use Sub channels,CBC,Radio-Canada,TVO on one transmitter.Better than nothing.
It seems that CBC/SRC started out with a plan to convert the TV networks to DTV and then somewhere along the line decided that OTA didn't matter. They need to reconsider their implementation plan and redeploy existing resources to provide one DTV transmitter in each market with CBC and SRC sharing the bandwidth. SRC could be HD in Quebec with CBC in 480 widescreen. In the rest of Canada, CBC could be HD and SRC could be 480 widescreen. The ATSC standard allows each stream in a multiplex to have a different major/minor channel number so the analog channel numbering could be retained for both CBC and SRC. The HD signals would still be available to the cable and satellite BDUs for both English and French networks.

Ottawa and Montreal should probably retain two DTV transmitters because of the large bilingual population in both markets. New Brunswick might require special consideration because of the official and actual bilingual status of the Province.

nothing in the standard that says ya can't have multiple HD signals in one mux either. In fact there is a station in Cleveland (or was it Rochester) doing just that. Remember seeing it last year during some tropo, or uhmm, ducting;)

2 HDs in 19.3 megabits should look acceptable at 720P30 but 2 1080s probably won't. One good 1080 and one good 480 is a much better combination.

I think you are thinking of Youngstown, Ohio, Cbs is 27-1, Fox is 27-2. I'm not sure if they are 1080 or 720. The picture looks good for regular shows but when I was watching a football game you could really notice some blurring when the action was moving. I flipped over to fox erie 66-1 and the picture was crystal clear. So I'm thinking 2 Hd's for Hockey Night in Canada is not going to work. Just my 2 cents worth. But I like the idea of CBC in HD and Src in Sd.

Naw I think it was Rochester. Don't recall seeing Youngstown here.

List of Dual HD stations (http://www.rabbitears.info/oddsandends.php?request=dualhd) as per rabbitears.info shows both WHAM and the Youngstown station as Dual HD

On Rochester's WHAM it looks like ABC and CW. Both 720p

Contrary to what you'd think, there are a few listed with one as 1080i, and other 720p also.
The Dual HD practice in the US doesn't seem to be as unheard of as u'd think. I'm sure there's also
likely to be a fair amount of variation from one station to the next as to how much effort they'd
put in to optimisation of variable bit rate encoding. My opinion, I think it'd work for Canada too,
especially when it comes down to something or nothing type decisions.
KTEN (ADA, OK)
10-1 (1080i) (8.3 Mbps) KTENNBC NBC
10-2 (480i) (2.1 Mbps) KTEN-CW CW+
10-3 (720p) (7.1 Mbps) KTENABC ABC

KXII (SHERMAN, TX)
Variable Bit Rate
12-1 (1080i) (13 Mbps) KXIICBS CBS
12-2 (480i) (5 Mbps) KXIIMYT MyN
12-3 (720p) (12 Mbps) KXIIFOX FOX

13-2 CW was 480, changed to 720 this year

Didn't SRC lose hockey to RDS?

Yes. According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNH_%C3%A0_RDS), RDS has had exclusive French-language broadcast rights to all Montreal Canadians games in Quebec and Ottawa since the 2004-05 season and in the rest of Canada since the 2006-07 season. RDS also broadcasts some Ottawa Senators games and has exclusive French-language broadcast rights to the Playoffs. I guess the SRC could show other regular season games, but I don't think they have (or would) bother.

Dual "hd" is primarily used in markets with too few stations to carry all the networks separately. The trend (except for ABC stations that carry LiveWell) is to go back to SD on the second subchannel.

Dual "hd" is primarily used in markets with too few stations to carry all the networks separately. The trend (except for ABC stations that carry LiveWell) is to go back to SD on the second subchannel.

Apologies for dragging the thread off-topic, but trending back to SD? On the contrary, the number of dual HD stations keeps going up. WTVQ Lexington added it just this week. Look for it to come to WEVV Evansville on July 1.

- Trip

Recent postings by the CBC paint a gloomy picture :(. CBC will be shutting down the repeater in St. John NB. Annapolis County - will be served in analogue! from
a transmitter near Middleton - The signal from this site is non-existent for us on the Fundy shore. So much for the CBC being a NATIONAL Network that we the taxpayer pays for! Both CTV and Global will be upgrading their St.John transmitters hopefully the signal will cross the Bay (as the analogue signal does today)

https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/instances-proceedings/Default-Defaut.aspx?S=O&PA=B&PT=PT1&PST=A&Lang=eng

Oh my, this is going to be contentious. CBC wants to service Saint John (a DTV Mandatory Market) in analog and use the the SRC DTV allocation (which won't be used) to service Fredericton.

Interventions accepted until Monday July 18, 8pm Ottawa time

https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/instances-proceedings/Default-Defaut.aspx?S=O&PA=B&PT=PT1&PST=A&Lang=eng

Oh my, this is going to be contentious. CBC wants to service Saint John (a DTV Mandatory Market) in analog and use the the SRC DTV allocation (which won't be used) to service Fredericton.

Interventions accepted until Monday July 18, 8pm Ottawa time
Did you notice that the engineering brief for the Fredricton digital transmitter shows a combiner that combines an SRC signal into the same antenna?

Indeed, it does. And if you look at the antenna diagram at the end of the document, you'll see that CBAFT-10 (Channel 19) co-exists with the proposed CBAT-DT (Channel 31). (In the original engineering brief, it explicitly states CBAFT-10 will be turned off in favour of CBAT-DT.)
As for Saint John … At least they will have some kind of OTA television, even if it is analog, and assuming the CRTC will allow it.
I presume that the "new" antenna system for CBAT-TV (Channel 4) on Mount Champlain isn't really new at all, but just a reconfiguration of existing infrastructure.

Our local 'On the Island' host, Gregor Craigie, interviewed a CBC Exec (didn't write down the name) regarding the CBC's CRTC application renewal. The interview started by talking about how CBC television programming was essentially locked into a long term agreement producing "Tommy Hunter-like" shows which people are no longer interested in. This time - they hope to have an agreement that better reflects the changing times, viewership, etc...

Then Gregor brought up the OTA digital transmission conversion. You could tell the interviewee did not want to dwell too long on the topic, but Gregor pushed.

In response, I wrote the following letter - suspect they may read it out on the air tomorrow (Wed) morning.

Subject: CBC's CRTC renewal application

Good morning Gregor:

I liked your interview with the CBC Exec - especially how you pressed him to explain CBC’s position on Over-the-Air (OTA) conversion from analog to digital signals. It was quite apparent he didn’t want to have to justify it.

CBC, and all TV broadcasters, have known about the CRTC’s intention to ‘resell’ that very expensive analog bandwidth for quite some time. Initially, other broadcasters protested as well but eventually they ponied up and accepted the August 31st deadline.

Your guest quoted OTA usage at about 7% across the country. I can only see this rising as Netflix and internet television broadcasting continues to reduce cable subscriptions. The next choice (and it is a choice) is for a one time investment of less than $500 to receive High Definition OTA transmissions with a suitable digital antenna. I’m situated near Cedar Hill Golf Course, and get about 15 High Definition channels between the Canadian Mount Seymour transmitters and the US Seatac ones. I’ll never have to pay for cable again using this.

Finally, from a continuity of operations perspective, having multiple options (cable, internet, OTA) means more viewing stability by removing single points of failure. This may be valuable in times of crisis/emergencies.

Your guest suggested CBC’s newest application will be more in line with a changing audience. As the population continues to move away from cable – it makes sense for the CBC not to put all their eggs in the internet basket.

Yours truly,
Fred in Saanich.

Nice post, Fred. :D I hope you made similar comments on the CRTC consultation on CBC. Mine was along the same theme.

Thanks - I haven't submitted anything on the CRTC feedback website yet, but will soon. I haven't decided which 'forum' would be best to post this kind of DTV conversion response.