The August issue of HiFi choice has an article that summarizes the current state of DAB in Britain, for those who are interested.

Interesting. I'd really like to get into digital radio sometime. But having said that, what if one has DAB in their car and travels stateside? Does it become obsolete and your out of luck for digital radio? And vice versa with IBOC.

And even here, what if I want to tune between local Toronto/Buffalo stations?

Now, as to DAB / IBOC, I don't know. Radioscape does make modules for industry. I *think* there is a DAB / IBOC module that a manufacturer can build a radio around. Oddly, I think one way to get DAB and IBOC market penetration would be to create iPod add-ons. There is a DAB one in Europe for the iPod. But a combo FM/IBOC/DAB one would be an interesting animal. :-)

Check out these examples:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Navigation/In-Dash+Navigation/AVIC-F90BT?tab=B

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Navigation/In-Dash+Navigation/AVIC-F900BT?tab=B

http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/POCEN/Products/Navigation/In-Dash+Navigation/AVIC-F700BT?tab=B

They have just about every conceivable option you can think of except DAB capability and the price tags to go along with them. (BTW, none of them have AM Stereo capability either. ;))

I'm in agreement with you both on this one CamDAB and Random Dude. A combo DAB/IBOC tuner is something I would also like to see. I wonder if DAB capability is something that could easily be included in something like the above tuners?

Is anybody still playing with DAB? I just tuned around with my little Perstel PR101 and the only multiplex still on the air here (Vancouver) is the one with all the CBC networks on it. Including Radio 3, BTW.

The Powers That Be seem to have officially conceded this one in favour of Sirius/XM. Even on the CBC I have never heard any on-air publicity about their DAB signals, nor is there anything on their web page. There used to be a couple of other multiplexes on the air, but they went dark years ago.

...laura

I'll hook up my DAB tuner later in the week and post the results from Toronto, unless CamDAB gives us an update first. Cheers.

Is anybody still playing with DAB? I just tuned around with my little Perstel PR101 and the only multiplex still on the air here (Vancouver) is the one with all the CBC networks on it. Including Radio 3, BTW.
...laura

Radio 3?!? Are YOU Lucky!!! Too bad Toronto doesn't have that here. I'd have that on continuously. :-)


The Powers That Be seem to have officially conceded this one in favour of Sirius/XM. Even on the CBC I have never heard any on-air publicity about their DAB signals, nor is there anything on their web page. There used to be a couple of other multiplexes on the air, but they went dark years ago.

...laura

Can you listen to the CBC again and check out all the bitrates please? I'd be very interested in a snapshot of that ensemble. Here, we have:

Radio 1 Mono 96KB/s
Radio 2 Stereo 160KB/s
Premier chaine Mono 96KB/s
Espace Musique Stereo 160KB/s
CBLT DATA 000KB/s (out of spec for radio?)
RDI DATA 000KB/s (out of spec for radio?)

The ensemble is labeled CBC DAB.

The stereo sound is OK, but 192KB/s sounded better, 224KB/s was even better than that, and 256KB/s would be great. Obviously using DAB+ would improved things even better.

That radio 3 sounds interesting..........

Cameron

I'll hook up my DAB tuner later in the week and post the results from Toronto, unless CamDAB gives us an update first. Cheers.

Do it anyway. :-) Yes, I think it's time for an update, although much hasn't materially changed unfortunately.

If we both post, we can compare results. What needs testing is channel 3 (LC on a Perstel DR101LF). 680NEWS and CHFI are both silent on mine. There seems to be some "missing" data steering. When the radio is first powered up on that ensemble, 680NEWS and CHFI both show a blank where the MONO/STEREO/DATA indicator is. If I then tune to 1050CHUM (mono audio feed but indicates STEREO encoding) and tune back to CHFI, or 680NEWS, the last station tuned status is entered into the area that shows STEREO etc. Thus, there's no part of the datastream for 680 or CHFI that "pushes" the radio to the correct mode. My observation is that the ensemble setup is a multi-part process. Some of the data comes from the data source, and some is set up on-site. Interesting.

DAB I think is the only way all these new stations can be allocated that want "dial space". There just ain't FM space anymore, and IBOC does seem to be having coverage issues.

No one has really caught on to the real advantage of DAB, multiple transmitters filling dead spots without problems. The FCC in the states has just realized that with DTV and are authorizing additional "fill" transmitters. The same advantages are with DAB.... Not so to a great extent with IBOC.

Cameron

Vancouver channel 5, "LE" in Perstel-speak. All in stereo.

"CBC/SRC"

Radio 1: 128 kbps, "This is Radio One"
Radio 2: 192 kbps, "This is Radio 2"
Radio 3: 192 kbps, "This is Radio 3"
SRC Première: 128 kbps, "Vous ecoutez la Premiere chaine de RadioCanada"
Espace musique: 192 kbps, "Vous ecoutez Espace Musique a l'antenne de RadioCanada""

I'm pretty sure Radio 2 and Espace Musique used 224 kbps in the past. 192 sounds good, but not that good.

One of the articles referenced in this thread suggested that DRM might be a better solution for Canada. I can see how that might work...

...laura

Hi folks, I hooked up my Arcam Alpha 10 DAB tuner on the weekend and got these results.
Q107-Excellent sound, high volume level.
104.5 Chum Fm- Out of phase?
1050 Chum Am- Excelent sound, high volume level.
680 News- Signal indicated, but no sound.
92.5 Jack FM- Good sound, low volume level.
CBC1 and CBC2- Excellent sound, lower volume(probably uncompressed).
96.3FM CFMX- Excellent.
CHFI- Signal detected, no sound.
CHIN, CHIN FM, CIAO, CIRV, CJMR- all OK.
CJYE- Very good and a pleasant surprise, too bad its content is an acquired taste(praise the lord!)
Edge 102- LOUD!!!!! but excellent.
97.3 and CFRB- Good but reception a little difficult.
Jazz FM- Excellent, reception a little difficult.
Mojo 640- Ok
Espace music- Excellent.
Premiere Chaine- good.
99.9 FM- good,high volume level.
Fan 590-good.
Overall, I was surprised that most were working and that most sounded good to excellent.

bryston, can you please put your location in your user profile? That list looks like its from the Toronto area, right? (edit: I just re-read your Post #97)

Overall, I was surprised that most were working and that most sounded good to excellent.

bryston, I'll be commenting on what your results are in a couple of days. I'm kinda swamped with things at the moment, but some things I concur with, but others we're getting much different results.

One quick comment... CHUM FM sounds like a "thumper" car with both the mids and tweeters completely blown. I'm at a complete loss to explain to someone that audio quality of a broadcasting enterprise if I were to demo the DAB radio.

Other stuff is still out of phase and missing right or left channel audio. More detail to come when time permits.

I'll be providing more detail in a couple of days.

Cameron

Stampeder: I live in Toronto, in between downtown and Scarborough with good sightlines to the CN tower.

CamDAB: My survey of the DAB stations was breif and not as in depth as yours normally are. This may explain some of the differences.

Looks like the CBC have pulled the plug on their multiplex in Vancouver - either that, or they have snow problems up on Mount Seymour.

Anybody else heard anything lately?

...laura

Looks like the CBC have pulled the plug on their multiplex in Vancouver - either that, or they have snow problems up on Mount Seymour.

Anybody else heard anything lately?

...laura

Hmmm... Interesting.

I was to Toronto this last weekend and found some very strange signal strengths on some ensembles.

Channel 3 (LC): Normal
Channel 4 (LD): Normal
Channel 6 (LF): Very weak (CBC)
Channel 8 (LH): Nothing! Nadda! No signal or sign of an ensemble?!
Channel 9 (LI): Normal

Just checked now (Jan 7 2009)
Channel 3 No ensemble found
Channel 4 Normal
Channel 6 Very weak (CBC)
Channel 8 No ensemble found
Channel 9 Normal

The CBC as heard from here has been very weak lately, and channel 8 hasn't been heard from for a several days. In the past, things have over time "fixed themselves" but could this be a pattern... About a week ago we had one doozie of a wind storm (cracked some apartment windows too) here. Didn't blow 'em in though, but we were um... waiting.... That didn't seem to take out any ensembles, but the outages are more recent. I'll fire things up tonight and take another look.

Cameron

Looks like the CBC have pulled the plug on their multiplex in Vancouver - either that, or they have snow problems up on Mount Seymour.

Anybody else heard anything lately? I was hearing the LE multiplex before Christmas on my little Perstel radio, but not now.

...laura

We have a few CBC staffers as members here at DigitalHome so I hope they'll let us know anything they've heard about DAB going silent in Vancouver (and elsewhere?)

CBC out of Toronto is still there, but extremely weak. I think it needs to be put on life support. :-)

LC (channel 3) and LH (channel 8) from Toronto both seem to have flatlined. (nothing at all).

Is this it for DAB in Canada? Slowly sinking into the abyss with nary a bubble from gasping for air? What a great loss of radio technology that could have at least slowed the onward march of the almighty .mp3 / .ogg / .aac / .m4a etc. file........

That's it for me with radio now... Radio 1 in mono, with some multipath and overload. Radio 2 less listenable due to severe multipath and overload. And shortwave on the balcony in the summer... Sat radio completely out of the question due to facing east...

Not a pretty picture.

Only thing left is to tinker with is OTA HD TV when those ATSC boxes can be had locally. :-)

Cameron

I bought an ATSC box at Radio Shack in Portland. It works fine, and here in Vancouver it picks up CBC, CTV, Global, KVOS and KBCB, a truly tragic home shopping channel.

...laura

ATSC talk goes in the OTA Forum, folks. :) We're sticking to radio in this one.

Had a chance to check again from friends apartment where Toronto is much stronger on DAB.

Definitely zilch on channel 3 (LC) and 8 (LH). No audible changes on channel 4 (LD) but channel 9 (LI) has from whence I started listening to DAB (December 2003) had and continues to have audio engineering that defies logic, with stations out of phase and left channel audio on others....

I do miss channel 8 though having Q107 with it's great audio and the CBC on channel 6 (LF) when it was much much stronger (back before December 2008). From friends apartment CBC is better, but you have to pick the sweet spot.

Cameron