FWIM, the DRM JSP is I think getting at is Digital Radio Mondiale (http://www.drm.org/).

On the weekend I came across a program on CBC newsworld titled "the end of radio", I'm not sure if it was a repeat or a brand new show. It was basically about the alternatives to traditional terrestrial AM/FM radio. Interestingly enough, a representative from CHUM claims DAB is not dead, and failed to thrive because of a lack of support from braodcasters. Not surprisingly the satellite radio rep. stated that DAB is finished. Unfortunately that was about it for DAB on the program.

I'm moving from England to Toronto this summer. Can I bring my DAB radio with me or are the standards different?

Canada uses the same system but different frequencies, which is referred to as L-Band. Some radios can handle both, others cannot. Can you tell me the name of the company of your radio?

it's an intempo pg-1. http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?itp-pg-01&P=1
says
Tuner Frequency Range 174 - 240 MHz, 87.5 - 108 MHz

ta

You will surely require a different antenna. L band is from 1.45GHz to 1.49GHz.
UK uses the old 405 line VHF high band channels which were abandoned many years ago. Those wavelengths are six to nine times as long as the L band.

Thanks. I've emailed the company to see if they can sell me whatever I need to modify the radio. I'm sure it's not as simple as unscrewing the old antenna and connecting a new one. I might just sell it and buy a new radio in Canada. MUST HAVE DAB!!!!!

MUST HAVE DAB!!!!!
I agree. If I lived in a DAB country, I would have it in a heartbeat.

Don't be so sure about that ai4i. DAB is good only if implemented properly. The majority of stations still sound better on FM.

but more stations can fit on the spectrum with dab than fm. I don't know how I got by in the days before I could pick up bbc world, 1xtra, and 6music... put up with sappy pop music or "the archers" on sundays I suppose. MUST HAVE DAB.

I wonder how long it will be before Canada gets a couple o dozen dab stations broadcasting all sorts of stuff...

Right now the only stations on DAB in Toronto are all the regular AM/FM stations, so don't expect too much.

I'm changing my mind about what would be the best digital radio standard in Canada. Remember my thought that DRM and DRM+ is better than DAB? I'm currently listening to the audio broadcast of the CRTC hearing on commercial radio. They currently talk about Ibiquity's HD Radio system. I'm now predicting that in Canada, DRM should be used for AM/shortwave and HD Radio for FM.

Why DRM for AM? Technical limitations prohibit the use of HD Radio at nighttime on the AM bands. DRM would work for AM radio just like shortwave radio, at all times.

HD Radio uses the spectrum currently used for FM stations (actually the SCMO* spectrum) and needs no new frequencies.

Currently there are less frequencies available in the biggest areas (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa...). Therefore, DRM+'s implementation in Canada would be complicated. I'm against CBC's arguments in its letter to the CRTC last March that HD Radio would need complicated coordinations with the current FM frequencies in Canada. Also, the 8-second delay between analog and HD radio seems too much. Ibiquity should make some experimentations to shorten or even eliminate this delay. (Actually, the 8-second delay is normal in the current "hybrid" mode.)

HD Radio is successfully experimented in the United States, and it should also work in Canada.

If HD Radio is a failure in Canada, I predict DAB should remain (with maybe the new DAB v2 codec), or maybe be joined by DRM+.

*SCMO (subsidiary communications multiplex operations) is a second audio channel that currently mostly carries ethnic programming or reading services on sub-carrier channels.

*SCMO (subsidiary communications multiplex operations) is a second audio channel that currently mostly carries ethnic programming or reading services on sub-carrier channels.Sounds exactly like what the Americans have always called SCA, or Subsidiary Communications Authorization. They run at SCA or SCMO subcarrier frequencies of 67KHz and 92KHz.

I think radio broadcasts should use the same protocol as ota digital TV. That way tv's could pick up radio stations and digital radios could get the audio from tv broadcasts. That would help the takeup of digital radio, as digital tv viewers wouldn't have to buy new equipment, and radio stations could use 5.1 channel audio. It might also reduce transmission costs.

Here in England I get all the radio stations on the tv as dvb-t as well as on the dab radio, which seems an unnecessary duplication of bandwidth. I'd rather have an audio-only dvb-t receiver for the car than a dab radio!

ps: I'll have to sell my dab radio before to moving to Toronto, the manufactuer says it can't be converted to L band.

I'm changing my mind about what would be the best digital radio standard in Canada. Remember my thought that DRM and DRM+ is better than DAB? I'm currently listening to the audio broadcast of the CRTC hearing on commercial radio. They currently talk about Ibiquity's HD Radio system. I'm now predicting that in Canada, DRM should be used for AM/shortwave and HD Radio for FM.

Why DRM for AM? Technical limitations prohibit the use of HD Radio at nighttime on the AM bands. DRM would work for AM radio just like shortwave radio, at all times.

HD Radio uses the spectrum currently used for FM stations (actually the SCMO* spectrum) and needs no new frequencies.



DAB+ or DABv2 from what I've read seems to work well at 128KB/s with the AAC+ or similar codec. This will allow for more stations per multiplex/ensemble.

The HD system came out of a desire partly due to each station wanting to maintain it's own transmitter site. Here in Canada, the concept of sharing antenna structures isn't a new concept and thus have a DAB site transmit the signal isn't all that much different.

I've been listening to DAB since Dec. of O3, and have heard excellent to horrific audio. When it's done bad, man is it bad. :-) But when it's done right, it's a real pleasure.

Oh... And the two AM stations on LI out of Toronto have had their audio returned. Now... Would they please fix the out of phase audio on CFMX?
*That* I can't understand.....

Cameron

CORRECTION to my May 16th post:

I'd like to specify that an FM radio station has a bandwidth of 200 kHz. The 38 kHz subcarrier carries the stereo signals. The 57 kHz subcarrier carries the RBDS system.

Two subcarriers, 67 and 92 kHz, are used for the SCA (or SCMO). They carry special services like ethnic programming, radio reading services, data services, elevator music...

I made an error: HD Radio is NOT carried on SCA frequencies. HD Radio is actually on a special subcarrier, 129 to 198 kHz.

but more stations can fit on the spectrum with dab than fm. I don't know how I got by in the days before I could pick up bbc world, 1xtra, and 6music... put up with sappy pop music or "the archers" on sundays I suppose. MUST HAVE DAB.

I wonder how long it will be before Canada gets a couple o dozen dab stations broadcasting all sorts of stuff...

Dear UK DAB enthusiast,

Sorry to break the news to you but at this point in time the implementation of DAB in Canada has been virtually abandoned by broadcasters. The automobile industry is busy installing XM or Sirius Satellite radios in their cars; DAB is not even an option. Since the roll out of DAB in Canada between 1992 – 2004 DAB equipment has never been widely available. Canada's major electronics retailers have never supported it. The decision of the United States not to go with DAB doomed it in Canada from the start (If Scotland adopted DAB and England did not how sucessful would DAB be in the UK? cars do drive across the border, be it Scotland and England or Canada and the USA. At this point it has been a bigger market failure than AM stereo. Don't waste your money. If already happen to have a receiver that can get both L-Band and VHF bands then fine bring it with you; however, you would get more programming selection on good old fashioned FM, including some FM stations from the US that will never be on DAB. Alternatively look at a subscription service, such as XM or Sirius. Enjoy your visit to the Toronto.

I just found a site that lists all the Clear Channel HD Radio streams.

In the Fresno Visalia Bakersfield area there are no HD stations. The closest ones are LA or SF.

www.clearchannelmusic.com/hdradio Those in the Windsor area should pick up the Detroit HDs. Try WJLB HD2 Classic Hip-Hop.

-A- At least Sirius works here.

I just found a site that lists all the Clear Channel HD Radio streams.

In the Fresno Visalia Bakersfield area there are no HD stations. The closest ones are LA or SF.

www.clearchannelmusic.com/hdradio Those in the Windsor area should pick up the Detroit HDs. Try WJLB HD2 Classic Hip-Hop.

-A- At least Sirius works here.

FWIW, HD-Radio is not DAB.

Bell GlobalMedia has effectively just completed the takeover of CHUM Radio and I am thinking the reason they wanted to branch in to radio is to get their hands on the previously granted license by the CRTC for a string of DAB transmitters across the country to compete with Satellite Radio with a an all Canadian product.

I think that license has a year to go at least before it expires and I would bet that is the only reason they went after CHUM, as regular broadcasting doesn't seem to fit very well with a TV network, since they are having to sell of many of the radio stations anyway. But it sure brings in experience and capabilities to launch a radio network, and they sure have the network capabilities already with Bell.

Only time will tell, but there has to be some reason for the acquisition and it sure isn't to get hold of the actual radio stations.

Dennis