Thanks for the reply Tom.F.1, feel free to share more "inside" information about DAB while it's still around. In response to rockhard's question on DAB vs. satellite, the only comparison I can make is DAB to Direct tv's music channels(I do not have XM or Sirius). In this situation it's no contest DAB is much better. DAB can sound awesome if the broadcaster makes an effort. Most music stations in Toronto transmit a 224kb/s signal, however a 192kb/s signal can great depending on the processing. The talk stations generally don't need a high bit rate. I've read in Germany they use 256kb/s which is supposed to sound phenomenal. In the summer of 2001 CBC tried a 256 signal here in T.O. but the Arcam reciever I use would'nt accept it do to a protection limit(whatever that is). When I notified the CBC of the problem they were kind enough to lower it to 224(ah, the benefits of being the only listener).
I've read somewhere (I hate remembering info, but without the source) that the commercial Brit stations are cramming as many stations as they can into a limited bandwidth and the audio is noticeably degraded.

I've also read the same thing in the British hi fi magazines. My experience has been anything under 192k is noticably poorer. I guess in Britain they are trying to push it as far as possible until people resist.

I know this post deals with DAB in TO but is there any DAB in Ottawa?

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. There are DAB broadcasts in most major cities, AFAIK. The answer is probably on the CAB web site somewhere.

edit: Thought I'd check myself...was rather amused to see that Digital Radio Roll-Out Inc. "re-launched" a year ago, but not for marketing purposes. So I guess they meet once a month and talk about those great digital radio signals floating around in the air that absolutely nobody knows about!

Anyway, if you go to http://www.digitalradio.ca, it will forward you to a CAB page that lists DAB broadcasts. Completely unsorted, of course...that would take someone 5 minutes and they are all much too busy for something like that!

edit: Thought I'd check myself...was rather amused to see that Digital Radio Roll-Out Inc. "re-launched" a year ago, but not for marketing purposes. So I guess they meet once a month and talk about those great digital radio signals floating around in the air that absolutely nobody knows about!


Yes, I agree it looks like one of the best kept secrets in Canada ;)

There are DAB broadcasts in most major cities, AFAIK.

As long as those cities are Toronto, West Toronto, East Toronto ....

The CRTC needs an atlas because they can only ever find 4 cities. Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Hardly the CRTC's fault! All they do is process applications for DAB broadcasts, which means there are no applications.

Which is probably a good thing anyway because DAB couldn't be more DEAD. Time to turn 'em all off and switch to HD Radio.

Don't get me wrong...I like DAB better, but since we're the only country in North America using it, we'll never get a decent number of receivers available.

I love the way people from Toront think.

So if no TV station had applied to go HD in Toronto then we should have just scrapped the entire idea and stayed NTSC all across the country is that correct?

I am not sure why DAB auto units from Europe would not work. Home based units seem a little more problematic but only because of the power requirements. That is just a matter of a power supply swap. Not really a big deal on an assembly line. Cost would be stiffer though.

I love the way people from Toront think.
Huh?!

So if no TV station had applied to go HD in Toronto then we should have just scrapped the entire idea and stayed NTSC all across the country is that correct?
Huh?!

I am not sure why DAB auto units from Europe would not work.
Canada uses different frequencies, so it's not plug and play. But besides that, how many DAB models are available in Europe? Pioneer has/had an add-on unit, and I believe Blaupunkt makes a few head units. Some of these were/are available in Canada, but the prices were outragous.

Home based units seem a little more problematic but only because of the power requirements. That is just a matter of a power supply swap. Not really a big deal on an assembly line. Cost would be stiffer though.
But WHO is going to do that? Panasonic Canada does not commission the creation of new models. Nor does Sony Canada, or any of the other major North American brands. That leaves several European brands which have no distribution and no brand equity here. The only DAB radios on the Canadian market that I know of where from unknown Korean companies.

If they turned on DAB transmitters next door to you (wherever that is - I'm guessing it's not Toronto) tomorrow, how would you listen to the signal? Where would you buy a receiver?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvillain
I love the way people from Toront think.

Huh?!

Quote:
So if no TV station had applied to go HD in Toronto then we should have just scrapped the entire idea and stayed NTSC all across the country is that correct?

Huh?!


Like ATSC is supposed to be a replacement for NTSC. DAB was supposed to be a replacement for analog AM and FM. You seem to feel that the CRTC has no obligation to to encouage any station to make the transition. What if the CRTC had come out and said here is the frame work for ATSC and no one stepped up? Should the CRTC have done any thing to prod them along? Or should they have just thrown their hands in the air and said oh well we tried.

It is easy for people in Toronto to sit there and go well what ever new thing comes along we are gonna get it and once we get it who cares about any one else. Short sighted thinking like that does not serve you well though.

If the DAB roll out had been nation wide rather than just in 1 or 2 cities do you think there would have been a better chance of sucsess? Instead of your radio only working in Toronto if you decided to drive some where else your radio would still work. National retail chains then could have afforded to do major advertising campagns. It is hard to get excited by the sales from one city. On the other hand it sure didn't take The Source and Best Buy long to get out there with their sat radio stuff.

As long as DAB is limited to the audience it has now you will not get manufactures interested. We have seen Canada specific models of other electronic devices in the past though. While changing the frequencies in a radio are not as easy as swapping power supplies which get changed on lines all the time. It still isn't monsterous. I imagine it would work like cars. The US gets far more choice but we still get some.

Geez, you've got some kind of bizarre hate-on for Toronto when you can equate the failure of DAB to a single city!

You are completely correct though - the CRTC has absolutely ZERO obligation to encourage any station to make the transition - be it DAB or DTV. They simply don't have the power or the mandate to do that. The FCC in the US has authority from the government to "encourage" (with a sledgehammer) TV stations in the US to begin digital transmission, and something similiar would have to happen here for DAB or DTV. DTV and DAB are both entirely voluntary at this point.

Besides, DAB broadcasts in are more cities then just Toronto, so why not pick on them, too?

And what city are you from, anyway? I'll have to find something to blame on it, just to even the score!

I am a real electro-junkie (Wifi, Sat. radio, pocketpc, Amateur radio, etc) and before finding this board, had never heard about Canadian DAB. I remember having friends in the UK demo it for me on trips over there but never heard a single word about a Canadian DAB....must have either missed the press release or it is a high tech secret :confused:

There *was* an organization responsible for the promotion of DAB in Canada and they used to routinely run commercials on the radio for it, but that group imploded a couple of years ago. They had persuaded Radio Shack to carry a few DAB receivers, but that was the ony retailer that got on board. I owned a retail store at the time and emailed this organization for information on where to source DAB radios that I could sell in my store, but two emails went entirely unanswered. So really, the state of DAB in Canada is no surprise to me.

The US never adopted DAB. They developed their own system called IBOC that has a marketing name of "HD Radio". IBOC hides a digital signal alongside a station's regular analog broadcast. So, no new frequencies and no new broadcast antennas are necessary. HD Radio is really picking up steam now in the US. Just take a look at this site (http://www.ibiquity.com/hdradio/index.htm) and tell me if this isn't where you'd like digital radio in Canada to be right now.

I know this post deals with DAB in TO but is there any DAB in Ottawa?

Yes, but just the CBC. And I'm the only DAB listener in Ottawa. In fact, the CBC could very well have shut down DAB; I haven't unpacked the radio since moving last fall.

Finally after all these years I have found another DAB listener!!!!

I dunno, unless I unpack that radio soon, I might be "former DAB listener".

If you have listened to DAB in the past what equipment did you use, and what was your impression.

I don't remember the brand name, but it was the portable radio that RadioShack sold for $100. We only have CBC in DAB here, and CBC2 was at 192k and sounded great. The lack of BG noise certainly helped with the classical music.

Reception was absolutely horrid. No reception in my apartment. No reception in my office. Walking downtown with it was impossible. And I live fairly close to where their DAB transmitter supposedly was.

The batteries drained really fast. Neither the DAB tuner nor the FM tuner had presets, and the FM tuner moved very slowly and in 0.05Mhz increments!

I'd say most of my problems were due to bad hardware and a signal not designed for anything more than internal tests.

The unit your referring to is by an Asian company called perstel. I also bought it at radio shack and returned it the same week due to many of the problems you pointed out.

So do other radios deal with reception significantly better?