Thanks avgjoe,
It’s good to know that my TVGOS problems aren’t an isolated case. I hope that it will be resolved soon. The guide is dearly missed, especially with the networks constantly changing schedules for certain shows (e.g. Lost & Chuck).

tenstu:

Interesting, and thanks for the good work. Just fyi, I receive TVGOS on an ANALOG dvr, and have been getting listings for all digital channels, including 2-3 WGRZ RTN, for several months now. The only channels still missing are 51-2, 51-3, and 51-4, which may not be considered "local" in my location.

I tried using the Buffalo zip code, and lost all listings completely. Possibly my dvr was trying to find WNED's non-existent analog signal. An Oshawa postal code will get the listings from CFTO, but was also missing the ION channels.

Steve

I've searched here and other forums, googled, ebay, and checked manufacturer's products, but this device doesn't seem to exist. I saw some older stuff that don't appear to have an ATSC tuner. Can anyone suggest something?

thanks!

I'm too cheap to buy anything like an OTA PVR.

I've just been using a Low Budget Dell Laptop, with an EVGA InDtube
USB ATSC Tuner (A BDA Device), along with GBPVR.

If ur a Windows user, GBPVR is not as complicated to setup as MythTV.
MythTV is probably about the same though, feature wise, if your already a Linux guru. Though I've never actually tried to setup MythTV.

I can get around in a Linux environment but I'm definitely no guru.
So, I went with GBPVR. I can record whatever I want, and even
stream it to my iPhone. GBPVR is free and is about as close to "community
supported" as ya can get.

http://www.gbpvr.com/

I get around the EPG Service Subscription requirement by parsing my own EPG using the data that's provided by the broadcasters OTA (the US Broadcasters that is). I can access my EPG, and setup recordings via the web if I'm not home.
Can even stream what Im recording, as I'm recording, if I wanted to.

Of course the more ya try to do, the more resources ur gonna need on the PC.
So far, for what little I do, I've been able to get away with the old el cheapo Laptop though.

Thanks - hmmmmm, I have an old laptop, but I think it's to slow. I get the impression that Canadian channels don't broadcast the EPG data OTA. Is that correct?

Media PC may be the best option.....

If you use Windows Media Center, SageTV or BeyondTV then you are not using the OTA data for the guide info - this is being downloaded from the internet.

Is WNED TVGOS still down? I tried scanning for VBI info on their channels but it came back as failed.

I'm fortunate enough to have built an HTPC so guide info and incorrect times are not an issue for me.

This does give me an idea though.

If a TV manufacturer were to include an ethernet port or better yet a wifi card in their televisions and allow them to connect to the internet (like an htpc) guide data could be downloaded directly from the web and you could get 2 weeks worth at a time.

Any manufacturers listening? How many non-computer guys would jump at getting a tv that does that?

In fact all guide data should come from the internet. Bell, Rogers, Shaw, etc. etc. Who here hates the please wait guide is updating routine? There is no reason why this technology cannot be included in every set top box or TV where guide data is updated at night every night and completely invisible to the user.

I think the TV manufacturer doesn't give much of a darn about the ATSC tuner. Many actually don't have program detail let alone a guide.

There can be some good use for an ethernet connection but getting program guide is not high on the agenda.

Does this forum have a running list of currently available HDTVs that DO have a program guide for OTA ATSC? Having seen a Sony (don't know the model) with the built in Guide displaying the OTA stations available, I think I would definitely give preference to TV makes and models that include a Guide, but finding out which ones have them ahead of time is sometime easier said than done.

Forgive my ignorance but you give a con for no on screen guide? Is there ever such a thing for OTA? Just asking because I thought the guides were a value-added feature which are only available on cable/satellite systems.

digital OTA has on screen guides. It depends on the channel that is broadcast what information is sent. Some channels here in Canada don't broadcast much or anything for the on screen guide. Other channels will broadcast at least what is currently playing on air. The best OTA screen guide channels will broadcast what is playing and a brief description of the program for the current program and several programs after that.

So it is possible with a good on screen guide to get the listings and descriptions of programs for several hours of programming for that particular channel.

Hope this makes sense.

All of that makes perfect sense - I've seen such a guide where you could scroll forward and back and see what would be coming on for the next several hours. I thought the Guide built into the TV was such a nice implementation (no set top box needed) that I would really like to consider this as a key point when I purchase my next TV; in other words, I want to purchase a model that has a very good built in Guide to display OTA channels. I was hoping other people on this forum had already taken an interest in this and that a list of flatscreen HDTVs with EPG features existed already. This would be a list of TVs "best suited" to ATSC OTA broadcasts.

I wonder if it makes that much sense for TV makers to invest that much in creating very nice guides for their TVs since a small majority of people would uese the internal ATSC tuner. And then there is the additional issue that hkaye brings up - you are also dependant on the channels to broadcast decent information and that does not always happen.

I use OTA but as a feed for recording to my HTPC server and then I play back to my TVs using SageTV extenders. The SageTV interface provides an excellent guide with data downloaded over the internet. I would not be willing to pay extra money to get a TV with a nice built in guide for these reasons.

Those are all valid points Wayne. So you're getting around the potentially lacking OTA guide data that may or may not be getting broadcast by using an internet feed which properly (completely) fills the guide in the software you're using. I do see that as a benefit to that setup.

It would still be nice to have the guide data in the TV though for installations where you don't want to have a setup box... like a TV mounted on a wall all by itself, perhaps in a kitchen or a bathroom opposite a soaker tub, or whatever. There are applications where it would be nice to have just the TV with only the coax and power cable to tend to. In those cases a TV with EPG would be great. If in fact such a TV would cost a little more because of the EPG, the difference in cost would likely be offset by not needing to spend any money on a STB for that TV. Just a thought. It's irrevelant if few/none of the hardware manufacturers are including EPGs to even pick from.

Actually, I've always thought this kind of information would make a great thread - "OTA Features of New TV Models". I realize we have a very nice forum where they discuss new TV sets, but few if any of those readers care about OTA.

I'm speaking specifically of features that affect OTA viewing - Is there an EPG or PSIP guide or simply real-time PSIP info; Is there an Add Channel Scan as well as Full Scan; What generation is the tuner; What kind of Strength Meter and Diagnostics are available; How many RF Inputs are there; etc. I am NOT talking anything objective like picture quality or even sensitivity of the tuner - there's far too many variables that can affect things.

My Sony is 3 or 4 years old and I'll soon be in the market for a new set. How it handles OTA has become a major factor in my search.

While the ATSC standard is concrete and solid, requiring broadcasters and manufacturers to follow it to the letter, the PSIP data is not held in the same regard. It is a terrible shame but PSIP implementation at all levels from broadcasters to manufacturers has been dismal.

You can read more about PSIP in this thread: Understanding PSIP Data as part of Digital OTA ATSC TV (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=49384)

would love to see tv's with built-in guide data. I use to rely on TVGuide magazine to plan my viewing, however, as we all know that publication has become a useless rag. At the moment I use the Directv receiver guide to find out what's on and what will be on. The box I have (H20-100) has an ota input and allows you to select a "local" and "neighboring" market for program data. However, being South of the Border, it doesn't pull program info for the Canadian channels. While the scan will show 2.1 the program data is for WBBM, Chicago...for example. You can hit enter and CBUT appears. The DISH box is even more limited. With an ota input you can scan and it will add 02-01but no program data whatsoever, just "Digital Service".

Steve...I have an old Sony tube HD set (KD34xbr960). I bought it not knowing anything about HD and digital tuners. For once I really lucked out. It out performs the newer flat panel (KDL46XBR4) time and again. Also, the old tube set came with 2 rf inputs so I can connect both the cable and the ota antenna directly. The tuner in the tube set is much better as well. I love the 2rf inputs, but it appears Sony has decided to save a dime by eliminating that feature from their sets. I agree that a forum with this type of info would be very helpful. Also, a resource for purchasing items, accessories would be helpful. When I put up my outdoor antenna (Channel Master 4228) I went internet shopping for the antenna masts. I found 5' and 10' Channel Master masts reasonably priced...$18-40, ....great!...then you get to checkout and the shipping was $150. Finally, found an Ace Hardware store in Lynden that would order them for me and avoid the $150 shipping cost. The per item cost was a little more than the $18, but I bought one of each for under $70.

The Channel Master antenna pulls in Vancouver nicely. My upcoming project is to switch out the 10'mast with the 5'mast. Hopefully, it won't eliminate my good signal readings terribly. Two reasons for trying the shorter mast...rotor indicates no more than a 5'mast and the 10'mast is getting blown around a little too much causing the signal to drop out.

Thanks guys for the great info. Looking forward to CHEK6 and CIVI17 going digital :)

Bruce

Forgive my ignorance but you give a con for no on screen guide? Is there ever such a thing for OTA? Just asking because I thought the guides were a value-added feature which are only available on cable/satellite systems.
The ATSC tuner/features is right on top of the list when I shopped for my TVs.

I played safe and stayed with Samsung which has a decent ATSC tuner sensitivity, program name/detail, EPG (CH LIST - not the fancy grid ones but it does show info for the next 10 hours). So far, very, very few hiccups.

I'll stay away fro LGs (program name but no program detail, no EPG. I don't believe Sharp, Panasonic show any info either.

You're quite right, the forum does not have much of this info.

Televisions with OTA Program Guides, posted by 'bladeduguay' 2009-12-15:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1029605&postcount=331


P.s. Always check for current / revised specifications (e.g. in 2008 Sony v-4100 series included a Program Guide, in 2009 w-5100 was the lowest series to include the EPG...)