EconoLodge Aerial is GONE. >:

It had a 2 stacked UHF yagis pointed towards Erie (50 ft)
A UHF yagi & VHF pointed towards Kitchener.
2 4 Bay bow ties.
And a Precision dish pointed towards Cleveland/Detroit. (60 ft)

In regards to the aerial besides the Tim Horton (near wellington & southdale). If you read the bill board. You will see the mention of cable TV.

However, its still pretty nice to look at.
<:

BCF, WICU is still boardcasting in analog. I think the other 4 stations are all in Digital.
My understanding of DTV. If you get it. It comes in clear.

Read ya l8r,
Al

That's too bad about not being able to see the Econolodge setup that sounds pretty wild looks to be cable tv got in there.Sure would have liked to know how the reception was though for channels. Surprised all that didn't rip the roof off in a high wind. I'm not in London that often to see the other near the Tim's but PanaMark said he would snap a pic of it. I would like to see a shot of all the houses though with the antennas on that one street just would be kinda cool too see other setups working or not.

Well I have finally seen the proof in the pudding.
Last night and today SUN Tv had some true HD programs broadcasted. I took some time to compare the picture quality (Rogers HD STB vs OTA) and sadly I can confirm that OTA has superior picture quality.
On Sunday afternoon I watched some of the NBA game that was aired in HD and
man I was blown away.
Not taking away from the HD cable box (still great picture), but now I see what they call this picture compression that is associated with cable.

I too saw the signal on 19.1 and 19.2 for SunTV one day. Seems to have gone away. Are other still seeing it?? I am just north of London and using just a small UHF loop on my Hauppauge 1600 card in my computer...great picture and good strenght.at least for one day! Does any one know if this will come back?

If your talking about the signal, I haven't lost it at all, always strong for me here. Maybe you need a better antenna or move it around a bit?

If you talking about the HD Programming, with SUNTV it is hit and miss, check their schedule.

I'm curious as to whether anyone in london is picking up digital signals from detroit, and if so what the strength of those signals is compared to the strength of the analog signals
(what I'm getting at is I'm wondering what odds are of me being able to pick up detroit digitals are given that I can get the analogs only some of the time,
and whether it's worth spending $$$ on a digital-to-analog converter.
My apartment faces WNW so I don't have a shot at the cleveland/erie signals)I bought a cheapo converter - I got a low-end Arctec on ebay (for far less, including shipping than anything I can find locally). It's a POS but a cheap POS.
Plugged it in last evening around 5pm, scanned, and all I got was the SunTV in London (19.1 and 19.2, CKXTV).

Tried it again this morning around 7:30 when the analogs were stronger (I was getting analog 62 (CBS Detroit) and analog 38 stong enough to watch).
Scanned, and it gave me 3 stations (or 7 depending on how you count)
SunTv in London
NBC Detroit (WDIV, 4.1 and 4.2)
ABC Detroit (WXYZ, 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3)

Oddly, the scan didn't find the digital versions of analog 62 and analog 38

This was with a pair of stacked CM4228's in a 5th floor apartment facing WNW in London and a TV about 10 feet from the antenna.

hi ppauper

The reason you could not pick up digital for ch 38 & ch 62;
Are channel 62 ERP is 200kw (WDIV ERP is 973kW & WXYZ 985kW)
Channel 38 uses channel 39 for digital. There may be some inference from CBC on channel 40.

Read ya l8r,
Al

PS
Summary of Detroit Area Digital Channels:
CALL NET Analog Digital ERP(kW) HAAT(m)
WADL IND 38 39 1000 170
WDIV NBC 4 45 973 281
WJBK FOX 2 7 20 305
WKBD CW 50 14 50 293
WMYD MY 20 21 500 324
WPXD ION 31 31 184 328
WTVS PBS 56 43 200 318
WWJ CBS 62 44 345 323
WXYZ ABC 7 41 985 305

Emerald Boar: thanks.
I guess I've lost CBS 62 for the time being, unless they turn the signal up.
ABC/NBC I'm ahead because there's a strong signal and because the DTV broadcast is in the middle of the 4228's spectrum (41 and 45 on UHF) versus 7 and 4 on VHF for the analogs.

What im picking up

10 CFPL (A London)
13 CKCO (CTV Kitchener)
14 CITS (CTS London)
15 [5-1 wews] [ABC Cleveland]
16 chwi (A Windsor)
18 CICO (TVO London)
19 [19-1 CKNX] [SUN London]
20 CJMT (OM2 London)
28 cico(TVO kitchener)
29 CIII (GTV Sarnia)
31 CITY (CITY Woodstock)
40 CBLN (CBC London)
42 ckco (CTV Sarnia)
43 wuab (MY Cleveland)
51 CHCH (E! London)
53 CBLFT (SRC London)
55 wbnx (CW Cleveland)
69 CFMT (OM1 London)

Read ya l8r,
Al

PS. Notes on my list.
CABC ~ The channel is quite easy to pick up and is nice.
CABC. ~ The Channel is always available. But the aerial has to be pointed at the broadcast tower.
cabc ~ I can pick up the channel every now and then. This channel is not always available for me.

the toledo stations (WTOL 11 (17), WTVG 13 (19), WNWO 24 (49), WGTE 29 (30.1), WUPW 36 (46), WLBM (FamilyNet/Religious, 40), and WMNT-CA (48) will be pretty easy, since you're only about 40 miles/60 km from the transmitter farm in Oregon, Ohio. just aim towards the mouth of the detroit river (as they said.. "just west of due south"), and you should be able to recieve them with an omnidirectional, and stronger with a directional.

A while back I posted some results regarding Toledo Ohio DTV signals. I was visiting a friends place whom lives right along the lake there in Leamington and I had issues with obtaining a few Toledo DTV signals on account they are using directional antenna's. For example NBC Toledo was not attainable.

WNWO-TV OH TOLEDO USA (Digital)
Directional Antenna ID No.: 42576 Pattern Rotation: 0.00
Antenna Make: DIE

When analog ruled, all Toledo's were receivable.

EB: I too get ch29 in london.
Can't get ch6, in part because I'm using a UHF antenna and in part because of direction

thanks PanaMark.

Now comes the fun part. OVERLOADING. [=

The signal is usually strongest at sunrise. Theres 5 directions you can try.
Erie, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo & Wingham.

Read ya l8r,
Al.

Well, I have made a temporary setup with my recently purchased 4221 HD clone antenna. Here are my reception results using Emerald Boar's tempelate as a base for north London Ontario OTA reception:

What i'm picking up

10 CFPL (A London) clear picture
13 CKCO (CTV Kitchener) just snow
14 CITS (CTS London) clear picture
15 [5-1 wews] [ABC Cleveland] not even a signal
16 chwi (A Windsor) just snow
18 CICO (TVO London) clear picture
19 [19-1 CKNX] [SUN London] 100 percent signal
20 CJMT (OM2 London) clear picture
28 cico(TVO kitchener) just fuzz
29 CIII (GTV Sarnia) occasionally watchable
31 CITY (CITY Woodstock) clear picture
40 CBLN (CBC London) clear picture
42 ckco (CTV Sarnia) fairly decent picture
43 wuab (MY Cleveland) mornings watchable then snow the rest of the day
51 CHCH (E! London) clear picture
53 CBLFT (SRC London) clear picture
55 wbnx (CW Cleveland) mornings watchable then snow the rest of the day
69 CFMT (OM1 London) clear

I would like to add

25 wviz (PBS Cleveland) watchable early mornings rest of the day snow
61 wqhs (Univision Cleveland) again watchable early morning and the rest of the day is snow or in and out picture

I have not added a pre amp in my application as I am only running a 15 foot cable (RG6) between the antenna to the television. The antenna is located in a room in the second floor of my two story home roughly 20 feet high. I must say I am very impressed in this little antenna. I'm really excited at the fact that some of Cleveland's analogs do reach our area. I don't feel these are DX results thus why I have posted here.
Mark

@Panamark:

You dont need to use a preamp with that setup. 15 ft RG6 line loss on 69 is like 1 dB.(preamp will start at 4) Now if you want to support more then 1 tv. Then you need to preamp it.

What is the difference between snow and fuzz?

I pick up 13 quite nicely. and i get shadows on ch 6.
about ch 25. When i do a scan i pick it up. when i turn to it. Its blocked out.

@RingtailedFox:
The gain on the back of an antenna is alot better then on its side. <:

What is the difference between snow and fuzz? I pick up 13 quite nicely. and i get shadows on ch 6. About ch 25. When i do a scan i pick it up. when i turn to it. Its blocked out.
snow means no signal, fuzz means signal is there but barely visable. I am pretty sure that was my thinking at that moment.
As far as CKCO CTV ch.13 Kitchener I have the antenna located on the east end of my home pointing towards Byron transmitter and Cleveland.
Now that the crap winter weather has come back the Cleveland's I spoke about are fuzz all day. Perhaps your televisions tuner is sensitive and locks out channel 25 on account it is boarder line signal.
I was experimenting with long length's of cable that I had laying around the home and the longest run I could find was around 50 ft (RG59) if that, and when I hooked up my preamp it actual made most of the channels crappy. I was wondering if the transformer 75ohm to 300ohm that I had to use to the Philips preamp was bad or just a bum preamp, or just overload? hmmm....
Ideally I think my best set up will be on the roof as compared to attic. Guess I will wait for better weather to venture that avenue.

hey, hmm
@panamark,
Its likely an overload issue. Thats why im using a 2 way + 3 way splitter in my set up. Use tvfool.com find out what your Pwr (dBm) rating is. +28/+22 dB gain is quite strong. (also tvfool.com will tell what directions should be the broadcast towers in.)

You dont need a balun. You take a 1 meter rg6 cable. Remove F-Connector. Hook the center onto one of the inputs. (You can also hook the shielding onto the other input. ** Hooking the shielding onto the other input is not recommended. Just what i did.**)

Read ya l8r,
Al

PS. Thinking of how do with the OVERLOAD issue.
Using a attuneator to reduce ch 10. (& maybe 40 + 69)
Maybe getting a UHF + VHF combiner. Just amping UHF. Then use unamp VHF aerial. locals (ch 6 [ch 7 SRC] + ch 10 +13)
Fringe (ch 12 erie + + ch 8 Cleveland [ch 7 Detroit + ch 7 Buffalo]).
Use a weaker amp/preamp.
Or wait until 2011. The OVERLOAD issue will be reduced.

Greetings,

I figured I'd post my results from "Old South" London, which are not far off from PanaMark's results. I'm using a CM 4228HD pointed at Sarnia and an SR15 pointing at Woodstock, both of which are monted in my attic. I'm using a Channel Master Titan 2 7777 amp/preamp.

10 CFPL (A London) clear picture
14 CITS (CTS London) clear picture
18 CICO (TVO London) clear picture
19 [19-1 CKNX] [SUN London] 100 percent signal
20 CJMT (OM2 London) clear picture
29 CIII (GTV Sarnia) occasionally watchable
31 CITY (CITY Woodstock) clear picture
40 CBLN (CBC London) clear picture
42 ckco (CTV Sarnia) occasionally watchable
51 CHCH (E! London) clear picture
53 CBLFT (SRC London) clear picture
69 CFMT (OM1 London) clear

So, not a bad list, but I'd be much better off if Global & CTV from oil springs were clear. I've messed around with a few different amps/preamps, filters, and antennas -- nothing has been able to improve their reception.

I'm curious to know what signal strength is required when CTV/Gobal broadcast digital -- will "occasionally watchable" be enough? Will I be able to split the signal? (currently I cannot).

Cheers!

regarding 19-1.. you mean CKXT-DT-2...CKNX is channel 8 Wingham :).

CIII-TV's transmitter in Paris (6) is much clearer and closer than their transmitter in Sarnia (CIII-TV-29 on 29). CIII-DT (Paris) has been allocated UHF 30 as its final channel, but is not operational. The only digital transmitters on the Global Ontario transmitter network are CIII-DT-41 on channel 65 (Toronto). Since you're already aimed at Woodstock (and by extension, Paris, since it's in the same line-of-sight), you should get CIII-TV 6 without an issue. Paris is a nice little town of around 8000 people, just northwest of Brantford, for those not knowing where it is.

CKCO-TV should be watchable directly from the station in Kitchener on channel 13. CKCO-DT is supposed to broadcast on channel 7, but that might cause interference for fringe reception of WJBK-DT (moving from 58 to 7 after June 12), and WKBW-DT (Buffalo, moving back to channel 7 after june 12 as well). I'm sure that will cause some problems later on ... CKCO should just flash-cut to digital on 13 or 17, but that's getting off-topic).

"occasionally watchable" in analog will mean you will lose those stations after the digital transition. you will need "pretty good" or better quality to get the stations on a regular basis (unless you want to end up with my current condition regarding reception of WPXD-DT... sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not). the typical digital antenna (set-top/indoors) will tend to pick signals up out to 45 miles / 75 km, add 15-30 miles for out-door omnidirectionals that are mounted on the roof... in the case of directionals, double the distance of reception. The stations that are clear (CITY-TV-2 woodstock, the London-area repeaters) will be ones you get consistently. Occsaionally, you'll also get reception of toronto and buffalo via E-skip...and if you're sufficiently high or west enough, you may get consistent reception of the detroit stations on 2, 4, 7, 20, 50, and 62 (mind you, buffalo shares the channel allocations of 2, 4, and 7, while CJMT has 20, and CBLT-DT toronto has 20 as well). You'll also get "summer visitors" from across the lake (Cleveland and Erie), but they won't be "permanent residents" on your channel lineup unless you're right on the lake or have a very high antenna.

the typical strength for signal lock varies with antenna, distance, weather conditions, and television set. As an example (and rule of thumb), i'll use my set: It typically requires 40% lock (even in blizzard conditions) to get a signal. after that, it either constantly drops out (popping in and out), pixelates to an unwatchable degree and freezes, with audio still going, or drops out entirely for a few hours. The reason for this is simple: error-correction can only do so much to repair the signal from interference, and after that threshold has been crossed, the signal fades entirely. One station, however (WPXD, Ann Arbor) actually locks and stays with just 20% signal. I have no idea how this happens, so i'm assuming it might just be a "summer visitor" or long-distance digital reception.

please bear in mind that Canada will not be switching to digital until 2011 at the earliest, while america will convet on june 12th (barring any more last-minute deadline extensions).

As for the user in Amherstburg that wanted to view WLMB and its CFL games over-the-air from amherstburg... i'm certain it's doable. i get it but BARELY up here. no colour and usually no sound, but i get faint images of the station's broadcasts.

I'm using a CM 4228HD pointed at Sarnia and an SR15 pointing at WoodstockAny chance of getting that 4228HD outside for some testing? You'd have better luck with the Sarnia stations, I'm sure.

Any chance of getting that 4228HD outside for some testing? You'd have better luck with the Sarnia stations, I'm sure.
At some point soon I will get out on top of the garage to see if the receiption improves. However, if I were to mount on the garage, my elevation would be considerably lower. I'll be sure to post back with my results when I do get it outside.

Also, RingtailedFox, I'm not using a VHF antenna (due to space restrictions in the attic) so I'm not picking up anything below 13, and my SR15 doesn' thave the range for CKCO in Kitchner. I'll be sure to try a VHF antenna when I perform my outdoor tests.

Thanks again all!