: ON - London, St. Thomas, Woodstock, Goderich - OTA
Jim the Canuck
2011-09-03, 02:20 PM
Since all I am missing with my equipment is Channel 6.1, can someone point me to a plan to build something simple for channel 6 with a bit of gain. I could point it right at Paris and see what happens,
If I build it, it they will come ?(in )
2011-09-03, 02:23 PM
Jim, ImHooked used some old FM Dipole that picks up channel 6 pretty good from what he reports. Not sure where you would get one of those?
2011-09-03, 02:23 PM
Yep, start here: Best Do-It-Yourself OTA Antennas (See these links) (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=140206)
A Delhi 5y clone would do fine, and a 10y clone would really do great but would be quite large.
2011-09-03, 07:47 PM
Thanks @PanaMark. I'm hoping to get up and sort it Sunday or Monday. One question though, CHCH is missing from your list. I'm worried I'm going to loose it too. I might get another Tin Lee trap if it becomes a problem.
2011-09-03, 11:59 PM
51-1 CHCHDT only comes in for me starting @ 170 degrees through 260, never checked past 260 degrees. It is out there further than Byron tower, so it's no surprise. Also I'm a 480i snob, so I don't bother watching it anyways.
Jim the Canuck
2011-09-04, 02:06 PM
The tower for CHCH 51.1 is out of Alvinston.
I can get it most of the time, but at times do need to move the antenna.
Mini State model 5MS740 Amplified UHF/VHF with rotor..(UFO from Radio Shack vintage 1995)
2011-09-04, 11:21 PM
Just got back from Mom's to get her new gear running.
I was quite surprised at the number of channnels we could pull in on her 14 yr old antenna.
Here's the list.
(A few of these did not come in at all earlier today, but they all did later once the rain and storms moved in.)
CHANNEL # DESCRIPTION AND LOCATION
9.1 CBC Leamington/Windsor
10.1 CFPL London (CTV 2)
14.1 CTS London
16.1 CHWI (CTV Two) Wheatley
18.1 TVO London
19.1 Sun News London
20.1 OMNI 2
51.1 CHCH Hamilton
(tower is NW of Glencoe by Alvinston)
69.1 OMNI 1
3.1 NBC Cleveland
3.2 Weather Cleveland
5.1 ABC Cleveland
8.1 FOX Cleveland
8.2 FOX Cleveland
25.1 PBS Cleveland
25.2 PBS Cleveland
25.3 PBS Cleveland
25.4 PBS Cleveland
33.1 ABC Youngstown OH
33.2 Youngstown OH
33.3 Weather OH
27.1 Youngstown (Cleveland)
4.1 NBC Detroit (HD)
4.2 NBC Detroit
2.1 FOX Detroit
62.1 CBS Detroit
12.2 WICU Erie
12.3 WSEE Erie
54.1 PBS Erie
54.2 PBS Erie
54.3 PBS Erie
66.1 FOX Erie
12.1 NBC Erie
2.2 NBC Buffalo
2.3 NBC Buffalo
Note...I researched alot of these channels online to find out where they are located but still confused as to why 2.1 is Detroit and 2.2 and 2.3 supposedly come from Buffalo.
When I did the scan on her converter box, this was the result for CH 2.
2.1 KDKA 2
How could there be more than one 2.1? Did it somehow pick up one from Buffalo and the others from Detroit? What about the 3rd 2.1? Hmmm
NOTE good old Ch 10 from London is now CTV Two.
Also found that there are still 3 analog channels running strong due to an extension provided by the CRTC.
Sorry I did not bring the channel #s home with me, one was Global (42?)
If someone wants to know what 3 analog channels were still running, I could call Mom to find out.
Jim the Canuck
2011-09-05, 09:31 AM
With digital. Some TV broadcast on a "real channel" the actual phyiscal frequency but virtualy call themselves another.
Here are some examples from your list.
STATION NETWORK REALCHAN VIRTUALCHAN
WKBK FOX 7 2.1
WGRZ NBC 33 2,1
If you have not looked at TVfool there is some good references there to show where some of the stations are relative to you locatioin. It also has the call letters and channels.
Lots of great info on the internet. Looks like Rodney is a good place fot OTA TV..
2011-09-05, 10:16 AM
Those are impressive results considering I would expect something like that to be results I would expect more near Blenheim, Thamesville or Chatham itself.
Regardless, it would be interesting to see if these would be tropo related, and exactly what type of equipment does your mother have?
Obviously there is a rotor in the mix.
To help answer what Jim has already touched on,
2-1 KDKA RF25 CBS Pittsburgh
2-1 WJBK RF7 FOX Detroit
2-1 WGRZ RF33 NBC Buffalo and sub channels 2-2 UNIVERSAL SPORTS, 2-3 RTV
I have included the RF assignments so you can see exactly what each channel is broadcasting on. Virtual channels can be deceiving to the new DTV viewer.
Like I said earlier, most impressive results from Rodney, On:cool:
2011-09-05, 11:13 PM
Her antenna is on top of a 35 foot tower, it looks like a standard channel master, (you know the type that most people bought from the local installer/TV shop around 14 yrs ago) and the last two long rods on one side are broken off !!
She also has a CM signal amplifier right behind the TV. RCA converter box.
Also, we were not able to watch ALL the channels that the converter box identified and picked up.
The next day, several of the channels showed zero signal strength. As I said, later on when the rain and storms came through, those channels did come in, and all were from the US. Cheers!
I relocated my 4-bay bowtie antenna the other day, and I'm able to pickup CKCO 13.1 from Kitchener.
CIII 6.1 broadcasting from Paris, ON is still a no go for me. I tried to combine a dipole antenna with my 4-bay bowtie antenna, but no luck.
2011-09-06, 09:29 AM
As most of you's recall here in London, when pointing away from local transmitters there was severe multipath with signals reflecting off buildings and such.
Now that digital television is upon us, multipath is much harder to diagnose.
On top of that some television tuners handle multipath better than others.
With this in mind I have found a sweet spot with my antenna setup that gets me all the locals while in one fixed position. What I have found though is two of my three television tuners handle mulipath great while the other is not that great.
Just keep this in mind when trying to get all the locals from one fixed position.
@78 degrees I can receive:
2011-09-06, 10:06 AM
I am finding similar issues here. The TV receives channels just fine. The PC tuner (Hauppauge HVR-2250) has issues with CKCO due to fluctuating signal quality, probably noise issues. Some PC software also cannot receive CHCH and recognizes TVO incorrectly. That's probably due to differences in the stations' ID or it could be excessive multipath in the CHCH signal.
2011-09-06, 02:08 PM
I am using a cm 4221 hd, 30 foot tower, rotor and cm 7777 pre-amp. Here are my dtv reception results:
10-1 snr 31 97%
13-1 snr 19 42%
14-1 snr 31 97%
18-1 snr 32 97%
19-1 snr 29 92%
20-1 snr 31 97%
28-1 snr 21 54%
31-1 snr 31 97%
48-1 snr 31 97%
51-1 snr 22 62%
Plus 4 analogs 23, 29, 42 and 53. 23 and 53 are mint, 42 is near mint and 29 is barely watchable. So that just leaves me without a global. Those dtv results are with the rotor pointed to optimal positions. Without a rotor I find I can only get 9 of the ten. If I point like Panamark says at 78 degrees I lose 51-1 or if I point at around 230 degrees I can get everything except 28-1 and 13-1 comes through but is a little flaky. All in all with 14 total channels I am happy with the set-up.
2011-09-06, 02:35 PM
I initially posted in the TVO thread about my London reception experience and the apartment building next door. Now that everything has settled I can get.
CFPL CTV-Two - perfectly - very strong signal
Omni 2 (I think) comes in reliably
Omni 1 (the lower powered one of the two omni's) comes in but with the occasional stutter or digital artifact.
TVO barely registers on my convertors signal meter which is not surprising as its power output is very low.
SUN TV I will get the occasional video lock
Nothing on City, CHCH, CTV or Global.
And a very ghosty CBC English
So based on those results I may invest in an attic antenna of some sort to see if can get some additional channels or improved signal.
CFPL and CBC OTA are OK for rain or emergency backup. Still kind of disappointed that this whole transition has been net loss in reception for me.
2011-09-06, 08:28 PM
13has become a no-go unless tropo for me. What rotor position is strongest for you guys? I guess the limits of vhf-hi for the 4221 are causing the issue.
2011-09-07, 12:42 AM
IMO, If anyone in London area is serious about getting reliable reception any VHF besides CFPL 10-1 RF10 you will need a VHF antenna roof mounted and up high. The weak power that CKCO 13-1 RF13, CIII 6-1 RF 6 is just plain silly.
I really don't think you need the biggest VHF antenna's but a decent suburban VHF 2-13 antenna should work. Actually Global's signal just suck's. Don't hold your breath on that one.
Pretty bad when you think about it all.
CKCO is the strongest for me when pointing at the transmitter @ 51 degrees.
CIII is the strongest for me when pointed @ 70 degrees.
2011-09-07, 07:56 AM
I am using a 4221 hd and I am getting ckco 13 all the time. My best result is between 50-60 degrees I get snr 19 and signal of 40-42 % and very stable. I also have a 30 foot tower which I'm sure helps. Maybe you have some height or obstruction issues? The other thing is, have you done any mods on your 4221? Even just removing the plastic clips I think improves your vhf high reception. Just a couple of points to consider. On a side note, does anyone in London know if CFPL or CKCO broadcast TVGOS guide info? I'm trying to find out before I buy a tv with program guide.
2011-09-07, 09:16 AM
I suspect my problem is that the CFPL tower is right between me and the CKCO tower. Probably overload and FM Radio overload knocking it out. I took out the USVJ splitter to try and get 13, so now I have CFPL again at (slightly less than before) high power interfering.
2011-09-07, 04:28 PM
Thanks to Panamark, I've been testing a KT-100 and a couple of filters. Here are the results.
Antennas - Reflectorless M4 bowtie facing east-west at 25' and ClearStream5 facing 13 at 20'. They are joined with a UVSJ.
Preamp - Kitztech TV Booster KT-100VG located in the basement after about 30' of RG6.
Filters - Radio Shack FM trap, Tin Lee channel 10 notch filter.
Results - The KT-100 is a nice clean amp but can suffer from or cause overload.
FM, probably CFPL FM 95.9, interferes with CFPL channel 10. It can block reception of 10 on tuners susceptible to overload. How ironic is that? (I saw issues with 10 analog previously but didn't know the cause.)
Channel 10 CFPL and probably CBC channel 23 cause interference with CHCH channel 51 and CBLFT on channel 53. This can be seen as lack of channel 51 reception and snow on CBLFT. It was previously seen as analog interference on 51 and 53. It can also be seen as CBC "ghost" signal on several channels on the UHF band.
Inserting the FM and channel 10 filters clears up the problems. I suspect that a better quality FM filter would be required to preserve channel 6 reception.