@ImHooked,

From what I know of stacking/ganging. The antennas needs to be of the same design. The cable from the antennas need to be of the same length.
Unless of course you BLOCK out RF. Then you can use different aerial designs. UHF + VHF combiner or an amp with different UHF + VHF inputs. Notch Filters.

When you gang aerial the best you can hope for is. +2.5dB. Ganging 4 aerials is just +5 dB (not +9)

Watch out for Channels that share the same RFs. (TVO & WUAB).
But so long as you have a dominate signal you should be able to receive something.

Read ya l8r,
Al

I have a lot of metal in the mast and think that may be affecting it's behaviour.



If your elements are within 2" of the mast it will be affected by it . I`ve found with my builds staying atleast 3" away from the mast has very little affect . I build reflectorless GH`s and front to back are pretty much the same signal strengths , a slight difference only on 2 channels.

Hello All!

The DBGH continues to impress. I have nothing on hand to compare it with but I have to say that I am sure happy with it.

I have acquired an Antennacraft 10G202 pre amp. (My son works at The Source so I kinda felt obligated there...) With the ol' DBGH pointed at Erie, I am never without PanaMark's 'Erie Three'. WJET, WQLN and WFXP. It doesn't get moved much. I am mystified at TVFool's plot of Erie's WICU 12.1. It shows their power at a mere 5.4Kw and yet their graphic has London awash in purple. An error? I tend to believe the low power as it is sure a tough nut to crack. 5.4Kw though?? WQLN continues to be frequently plagued with a low S/N ratio. I do get a decent signal level though. A couple of questions/thoughts about that:

>Does anyone else's WQLN exhibit a S/N ratio that they feel should be higher based on signal strength?

>As constructed, the DBGH's gain drops off a cliff beyond channel 50. Channel 50 is right in the GH's wheelhouse though. Could construction errors have moved the gain curve enough that channel 50's response is now over the cliff?

>Does anyone know of an interference source near that frequency that could be jamming channel 50?


I have read, in this thread, that others on the west side of London seem to have better luck with Cleveland than Erie. Having said that, Cleveland is a little troublesome for me over here in Crumlin. Checking the map, I have found that the big transformer station at Highbury/Pond Mills/401 is directly between me and Cleveland.

>Could this be killing any non-tropo signals coming my way?

Other observations:

As a truck driver, I get all around Ontario west of a line from Meaford to Long Point. I have started paying attention to antenna installations. It appears that roughly north of Hwy 7, the parabolic rules for UHF. Chatham/Windsor seems to be UHF/VHF yagi combos. In the Leamington area there are some HEAVY DUTY, BIG yagi and bowtie farms. Geez.

Want to see a big tower? Ferguson Line and Dalewood between St. Thomas and Glanworth. Jaw dropping. This has got to be the tallest private tower I've seen. Also, Hwy 19 and 401 (Ingersoll). There is a motel there with some impressive, and I mean impressive, signal gathering equipment.

I look forward to any thoughts on the above questions.

I have travelled to Windsor several times, and I am amazed at the number of homes with OTA antennas on towers in Tilbury south of the 401, no monster set-ups, just a plethora of towers and yagis- I guess there is no cable service there, and/or it's a great place to get OTA signals.

Also, Hwy 19 and 401 (Ingersoll). There is a motel there with some impressive, and I mean impressive, signal gathering equipment.

I found this one on Google Street View: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=motel&sll=43.024855,-80.850277&sspn=0.004933,0.00868&ie=UTF8&t=h&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.26&hq=motel&hnear=&ll=43.023906,-80.849462&spn=0,0.00868&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.024042,-80.849641&panoid=IE8EfSKxJcTncVYGJXtqBg&cbp=12,228.47,,2,-7.85

Impressive indeed!

>Does anyone else's WQLN exhibit a S/N ratio that they feel should be higher based on signal strength?


channel 54-1,2,3 WQLN-DT is located on RF50, with this in mind; there is co channel from WNEO-DT Akron transmitter also located on RF50. It never fails. On tropo summer days there is a hit in the SNR for RF50.
Another one is with Cleveland's channel 25-1 WVIZ RF26. Co channel from Jamestown's religous station also on RF26 will fight with each other.

..Slapping my forehead...

That's right! Thanks for reminding me about the pesky Akron channel 50 PanaMark. Once you mentioned it, I remember reading about that way back in this thread. Gee, there's so many tid bits of information in here it's hard to remember them all.

and knowing is half the battle.....
Yo Joe!

lol

@Hook
RF 50
Lets not forget of CHCH @ 51. CHCH could cause some interference with on 50.
(It has stated on here the reason that SRC was given 53 was to knock on WQLN 54 & the same with CTV 42 (WUAB 43))
Plus there is channel overloading. (+/- 16 channels) 66 ... 34 ... 18 TVO. If your amp doesnt have a out band filter TVO signal could be bleeding into rf 50. That being said I have yet to lock onto 50...

RF 12
RF 12 wavelength is about 1.3 m (frequency in MHz/300m) rf 12 = frequency of 206 MHz.
Whereas RF 14 wavelength is .63 m (470/300)
Since RF 12 wavelength is much longer. It loses a lot less signal over the distances. Which is why i listen to Chicago AM stations at night. 200 to 600 m wavelengths.

Signals from Cleveland.
I live within 500 meters of the SOHO power station. So i dont think it will be the power station. However Buildings, trees & Hills will block some of the signal. Aka we have a 4 story in the direction of Erie. (nothing that a 40 footer could not over come.)

Cleveland vs Erie.
The real issue with Erie vs Cleveland. Is that Main Cleveland Stations signal are quite strong. Whereas that signals from Erie are reasonable. I recommend that you leech rabbitsears database @ http://rabbitears.info/ss/ If you dont have Office Program like m$ office or word perfect office to open the database. I recommend you get Open Office (its free but quite large at 300Mb)

Want to see a big tower? Ferguson Line and Dalewood between St. Thomas and Glanworth. Its that the CITYTV tower?


Read ya l8r,
Al

Want to see a big tower? Ferguson Line and Dalewood between St. Thomas and Glanworth. Its that the CITYTV tower?

CFHK-FM (103.1 Fresh FM)

The CITY-TV Tower is in Woodstock.

I'm still digesting the RF50/Cleveland vs. Erie info but a quick note about the tower on Ferguson Line.

It's not the FM transmitter on Highbury that I mean. Dalewood Drive is between Highbury and Wellington. The tower there has a VHF/UHF combo on top. You almost need binoculars to see it way up there.:)

rare all Erie's are being received tonight. 35-1 WSEE is pretty strong

Mark, to get all Eries, can you leave the 91xg and VIP in one direction, or do you have to change aim?

no I just have the rotor set to 138 degress. Both antennas are pointing in the same direction.

Hello again!

I have a bit to cover so here goes:

While up checking the integrity of the revamp, (Oh, I had a post about rebuilding the DBGH with an aluminum mast with all elements mounted in front but it was moved to another thread due to some other comments included.), all fasteners still tight etc. I checked my lead in and GASP, it's RG59. I hadn't even looked at it because it's the lead in from a Bell dish install. I just assumed whoever did it used RG6. Unless there's a big coil of it in my attic, it shouldn't be more than a 15 - 20 foot run. I guess that while sqeezing every last db out of an antenna, the use of RG6 or 11 would be the norm, does anyone see a problem with that short of an RG59 run? Remember, I have a pre-amp.

While performing our usual activities this week, one night a couple of Detroits were coming in off the side. I'm pointed toward Erie with an antenna with virtually no side lobes. Hey, cool! Detroit is coming in! Wicked Tropo that way, or the signal took a big left turn somewhere! :) So, up the roof I go and spin the antenna towards Detroit. Hoping for some newcomers from that direction but picked up nothing. Even the ones I had were gone. Tried Cleveland and nothing there either. Back up I go and point to Erie. There's Detroit again off the side. Now, from my location, Detroit is directly behind Channel 10's tower, not to mention all the other Byron towers. I'm pretty sure that Channel 10's power will wipe anything out from that direction, particularly with a 10G202 on line. Now, the question: Has anyone had any luck with a stub trap? Would an LC trap, as PanaMark has be more effective in beating Channel 10 down?

Cleveland has so far been a problem for me and I've only had moderate success to the West. Had PBS out of ?Flint? for a night once. (28.1 WCMZ RF 28)

Thanks in advance..

Cheers.

PanaMark has had and still does have overload trouble with CFPL and with other UHF local stations. His CH10 trap helped a lot IIRC with getting Cleveland, still had some overload facing to the SW though (in the direction of Toledo) even with that rather expensive RC preamp and FM traps.
Our DTV transition is barely over a year away now, it might be more cost effective to simply wait until Aug 31 2011 for the much weaker digital signals to rule rather than buy expensive trap(s) for possible short time use with strong local analogs. Here down near Lake Erie i have a UHF CH16 and 22 within 6-9 miles that overload with preamps and have thought about filtering them out but I would need two exact traps for both antenna setups which would cost way too much so i am kinda playing a wait and see game for Aug 31 2011 but that's just me lol.

my two $0.02

I decided to go with a lower gain preamp with more overload resistance. The Winegard AP-8700 seems to be a good choice in these respects. Very high gain amps will create more receiver overload and tend to overload themselves. High gain CM preamps seem to be popular but are probably not a good option for urban ares with strong signals. All that is really needed is enough gain to compensate for line loss and splitters. A preamp with 15db will do that for most residential applications.

Has anyone in London tried the "mclapp 9.5x9.0x8.5 Super-4-Bay - NO Reflector" antenna? I am mainly interested in picking up CH (51), CITY (31), Global (6) and CTV (13). I figure the no reflector design is best due to the opposite directions of the signals. I'm not even bothering with Global and CTV on 29 and 42 because the networks have already stated they will not convert those stations to digital. Global on 6 is a real stretch for that antenna but I'm not concerned until after the switch to digital as it might change frequency.

@Bob
both 51 & 31 are fairly easily to pick up, assuming that your in London.
A clone has good results in picking up 13.
I have had some success using a FM dipole in order to receive ch 6.
I still recommend that you use a fm/vhf antenna for ch 6. Plus theirs a wack of strong FM stations that you can pick up from KW area.

BTW, Where did you read that CTV/GTN are not upgrading their Sarnia/Oil Springs transmitters?

@hooked
rg59 vs rg56 (series 6, rg6)
Just remember that line loss is measured in 100 Ft intervals. And Line Lost for ch 51 is -16dB vs -5.5dB. Every 3 dB = 50%. The Line Loss for VHF channels is almost the same. (-2.5 vs -2 or something). [20 foot rg59 run -2.5 dB.] With an amp, you should not have an issue.

Is there a building around you where the signal could be echoing off of it? Seems to me that Detroit signal would be bouncing off of something.

My experience with Overloading (Low quality Amp & clone.) Is that ch 10 overloads 32/33 and 50. Plus, since ch 10 is still analog you can actually see ch 10 appear on 32/33 and 50. Also check ch 24/56. If CBC appears on them. You will need to find a better amp. If you can not see CFPL/CBLN appearing on other Channels. Then your amp is fine.

Read ya l8r,
Al

AGC Automatic Gain Control
This circuit reduces tuner sensitivity if strong local signals activate it.
When I had just the DB8 up without a VHF antenna, and a CM 7778, I really did not see much overload with channel 10 CFPL, on account the DB8 sucks for hi VHF reception.
My issue began when I installed the Delhi 302S VHF antenna.
With the VHF antenna installed I soon began to see exactly what was happening. When I pointed towards Cleveland the AGC would reduce the tuner's ability to pick up the Cleveland stations. If I put a UVSJ to attenuate the VHF the Cleveland's would come in.
Thus I introduced the Tin Lee CR7 fm/channel 10 trap. Voila no more issues towards Cleveland.
Pointing towards Byron tower will produce the same thing.
I lost three Winegard HDP269's (even with the rated toughness towards high signals). The mast head circuit would always go, as I measured the voltage and there was never a power supply issue.
Winegard handled my issues promptly, but I decided to move on to CM.
The CM is a nice little work horse and handles overload well.
Then there is the Research Communications preamp I have now and I am extremely impressed in it's performance.

I am running three television sets, and it helps overcome line losses, and it has a great NF.

Now the XG91 I have added has improved reception for 50-1 WQLN RF50.
All of my channels from 30 through 50 have improved over the DB8, based on my experience.

Ever since late May this year compared to last year, my summer reception of American OTA has improved about 40% with my latest gear.

As a matter of fact on Aug 6, Rogers cable is leaving the house.
I can consistantly receive Global 6,29 CTV 13,42 TVO 18/28 CBC 40 OMNI's 20/69 CHCH 51 SRC 53

I wonder how long the family can last. I give it 4 month's.
We'll see.

Mark

Congrats to cutting the cable!

My house has been cable free for about a year and half now and don't miss it one bit, and also keep thinking of the $$$ we save every month.

Going OTA has been a fun hubby that has died down a bit at my house since my set-up is finally settled. Even if we couldn't get the Buffalo/US stations, we would still be able to get about 15 channels and a lot of the US programming is carried by the Can Networks.

Due to some nice tropo tonight, the kids are watching Qubo on 51-2 ION which is 93 miles from my house - that's cool!

Anyways, you mentioned that the 91xg outperforms the DB-8 at 30-50 UHF.
What about 14-29? What is your experience in this range and in particlar 23.1?

BTW: I don't know if it's just me, but I'm starting to see more and more OTA antennas popping up on roof tops...