@Panamark
How do you find the long range reception of your DB8? Sounds pretty good... are those stations solid from Erie at 90 miles away? How is VHF reception on it? I always thought bowtie designs were primarly for UHF reception. Wondering what is the best type of antenna for fringe signals, i suppose it depends on the area.
sorry had a busy weekend. To answer your question the VHF reception on the DB8 is pretty crappy. As you my know it is really just a UHF antenna. Keep in mind I do get channel 13 from Kitchener (50 miles) pretty good on it when pointing at the transmitter (80 degrees) or surprisingly decent reception from the back of it (250 degrees). I live near channel 10 CFPL transmitter and this signal is mint.
I originally started with a clone antenna, then a Channel Master 4221, performed the hack and added a second hacked 4221 and messed around with stacked and ganged configurations then to what I have settled on today a DB8 with preamp and it pretty much as good as I am gonna get for our area here.
London is kinda of a funny OTA area as we are surrounded by tons of American markets in the 100-200 mile range (which I have documented) but as for reliable it is pretty fustrating.
Right now when I am pointed towards the Erie market most evenings I get ABC, PBS, and FOX. The signals are always all over the place from high to low, but for the most part uninterupted. It is during the day the signal fades away.
According to Google Earth my home is @ 866 ft. But I am not sure if that number is above sea level or something else. Regardless like Phil mention i know I do have some advantage in that department.

@Panamark
Yeah I think i saw some of your pictures posted in one of the other threads where everyone shows thier setups.... sounds like you've done your fair share of testing and kept upgrading! What did you do with all the old antennas if you don't mind me asking?

I'm currently running a combo antennacraft hbu33... and wish I had spent a few extra dollars on the hbu 44 model. I'd love a bigger antenna but i don't think i'm willing to spend more at this point for potentially a few extra stations. I'm already doing pretty good, last night when i found a few new stations that were only visiting for the night i was up to 38 digital channels that were obtainable by using the rotor, not all at once of course.

Tonight I had my first glimpse of WILX-DT on VHF 10 from Lansing Michigan, approx 85.3 miles away and tropo according to my tvfool. Couldn't get a solid picture just some in and out pixelation.

WLNS (6.1) and WUPW (36.1) that i saw last night are gone tonight... But i still had partial locks on WKYC and WEWS from Cleveland. Fun stuff, one of these nights i might just sit back and watch instead of channel hunting :)

Guys quit giving me ideas this late in the season
combo for London?
Gezz I'm getting the fever.

Mark:

Here is another simple idea you could try to improve signal strength for Erie: Use a UVSJ splitter to attenuate CFPL 10.0. It costs about a buck if you can get it in London, probably $10 or more if you have to order it from the US.

oh how nice it has been to get my Cleveland channels again!
as much of the rest of you have mentioned I am enjoying this late bliss of tropo.

Panamark what channels from Cleveland do you pull in way out in London? how far are you from the towers? i'm about 90 miles.
well lets see, tonight from Cleveland I am getting:
3-1 WKYC-HD
5-1 WEWS-DT
23-1 ION-DT
25-1 WVIZ-HD
43-1 WUAB-HD
55-1 WBNX-HD
61-1 WQHS-DT
then from Youngstown,Oh
27-1 forget the call letters
Erie,Pa
24-1 WJET-DT
54-1 WQLN-HD
66-1 WFXP-DT
this is all while pointed at the Cleveland market (110 miles)
DB8 rocks for the the side reception on great tropo days. I just rotate the rotor and the signals from each market get better.

27.1: WKBN-DT - CBS Youngstown, OH
27.2: WYFX-LP/WFXI-CA - FOX Youngstown, OH

I'm surprised you get WKBN-DT.. it's on 41, co-channel to WXYZ-DT (ABC Detroit).

are you only able to pick up american/digital signals at night, or are there times in the day you can pick them up as well?

I'm surprised you get WKBN-DT.. it's on 41, co-channel to WXYZ-DT (ABC Detroit).
WXYZ-DT is @ 250 degrees on my rotor setting (108 miles)
WKBN-DT is @ 170 degrees (130 miles)
they take turn rewriting each others PSIP when directed at each setting.
Last night I was not getting any Detroit's so there was no issues. On evenings that have exceptional tropo, and I have the rotor set to the Cleveland market (190 degrees) then WKBN will not pull because of interference. Keep in mind if I point exactly towards the transmitter there usually is not any issue
I have my biggest issue with
WVIZ-HD 25-1 (RF26) @ 190 degrees and
a religious network from Johnstown 26-1 (RF26) @ 130 degrees
when the tropo is strong and I point at 190 degrees it usually is enough to not allow WVIZ not to pull in on account of interference.
hope this helps clear up the air, pardon the pun.

are you only able to pick up american/digital signals at night, or are there times in the day you can pick them up as well?
keep in mind my reception for these markets are tropo induced
for the Detroit market reception I get reception from lets say after 9PM until 9AM then nothing for day
for the Cleveland market reception can include the whole day with signals the best at night

now the three Erie stations do come in during the day too, but signals are best in the evenings until morning.

Wow thats impressive. I think you're doing just fine with that DB8! 110-130 miles is a long way.

Wow thats impressive. I think you're doing just fine with that DB8! 110-130 miles is a long way.
I think what helps too is my elevation in my area. Indeed I have been a happy man since I've installed the DB8.

I've been trying to put some thought into Panamark's success at OTA DTV compared to others of us in the London area....I think he is really onto something with the DB-8. I was looking at the gain charts for several antennae at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html and noticed that the DB-8 has the lowest gain for VHF-HI and lower end UHF (14-20) compared to other fringe alternatives like my 4221HD and the 4228 Channel masters.

My theory: Most of the local analogue market is in VHF HI and low-UHF. Antenna's that amplify too much in those areas might be leading to poorer results on other weaker signals due to overload. I'm tempted to try putting in a UHF only pre-amp in my system (4221HD, mounted @35 feet, 30 foot RG-6 run, amped splitter to two TV's) to test some things out. Unfortunately, given the height of my install, I don't have a 40' ladder to get to the roof easily.

Any thoughts on this? Would like to compare notes with others - both Panamark and I are at fairly high ground locations in town, and I'm 5km further south, so I would think my results for DTV out of the USA should be comparable if I amp, and can control bleed from CFPL on channel 10.

Why Panamark results are so good.

LAKE ERIE!!!!!

Lake Erie is like 177m Above sea level.
aka 500 ft above sea level.

So we can add about 100m to our HAAT.

Read ya l8r,
Al

hmmm,
I quickly wanted to posted something about lake erie. Which is true.

@Radarboy
You dont need to go up to the top of the roof. What you need is clear sky towards where you gonna point the aerial. Buildings due block Line of Sight. You just have the aerial overthem.

Your theory is bad. The main 4 channels for Overloading would be: Across the VHF & UHF spectrum.
10 CFPL 325kW overloads @ 5.9 to (20sh when Digital)
40 CBC 1.6mW overloads @ 15 to (20sh when digital)
69 Om1 1mW overloads should be whats around CBC results.
31 City 1mW
Plus, let us not forget FM radio
FM96 is 190kW which is VHF-lo station.

In my current setup. I notice that the overload issues are 16 rf channels apart.
Like
City 31 appears on 15(wews) ; 47 ; 63
CBC 40 appears 24 ; 56
Sun 19 appears 35 ; 51 (chch) (yes, i do think sun is causing interference issues with my cheap equipment)
Om1 69 appears 53 (src); 37 ;21

I dont know why but CFPL appears on rfs 32 & 33.

Read ya l8r,
Al

Emerald,
you really have to take that Philips pre out of your loop. I am almost sure you would have much better success without it in the loop. It is way to strong.
Just for kicks, leave it out for a bit. I remember when I had that pre amp and it was killing my reception something serious.
If your interested I have a Kitztech amp I would not mind lending you to try. It has an adjustable dB gain on it.
Let me know
Mark

@mark

your right,
The phillip pre amp does suck. But i think need to amp for the secondary TV. On the secondary TV there is no overload.
30 feet rg6 + 3.5 split + 60 feet of rg59 + 2 other 3.5 splits.

But its better then what you think. When you remove the balun off of the antenna and do a straight twin lead into the pre amp.

Hopefully, I will be able to buy a quality setup. UHF & VHF antenna (maybe combo)+ quality pre amp. stick it on the roof. Point the VHF towards Erie see if I can lock on 12(+ maybe get 6 and 13 on the side). If not point towards kitchener for 6 & 13

Read ya l8r,
Al

As far as CBC goes, you might be getting the signal on both 40 and 56 because they have a transmitter on Channel 56 at Kitchener. I know at least one person who can pick 56 up on rabbit ears in Lucan, to the north of London.

Perhaps now that CFPL is part of the CTV network, that issue is moot (how different is the programming on CFPL vs 42 CKCO?)

CFPL is owned by CTVgm, but it is part of the 'A' system, not the main CTV network.

I get the same impression with alot of stations. It's like London is ignored or intentionally overlooked for some reason. It's an untapped market that they have chosen to overlook.

Without getting too far off-topic, London is not very well known nationally, and I know myself that when I last travelled to the Maritimes, most people had no idea there was a London in Ontario. I have never understood why the city is so unknown outside of Ontario, but I think that has a lot to do why the city gets forgotten.

As far as specific TV stations go, the CTV situation goes way back to the 1960s. Both CFPL London and CKCO Kitchener were CBC affiliates, and Kitchener also got CBLT from Toronto. CKCO decided to affiliate with CTV while continuing to get CBC from CBLT and CFPL, while London got CTV from CKCO. This type of arrangement is common in some mid-size U.S. markets - for example in Mid-Michigan, Flint has the ABC and FOX affiliates, while Saginaw has the CBS and NBC affiliates, and prior to the 1990s the ABC affiliate in Flint also served Lansing before it had its own ABC affiliate.

I have no idea why Global did not put a transmitter closer to London, but they also never put a transmitter close to Kingston.

Technically, Global (from Paris) covers alot more area then CTV (from KW).
The issue is you need to have a proper VHF(lo) antenna. Plus since rf 6 is adj to FM radio. So you need to watch out from interference from FM radio.

Anyways, I do believe i am getting CBC 40 overloading into 56. I just need to get good proven equipment.

Read ya l8r,
Al

Drove past a fellow tower mounting an aerial at Baseline & Andover - anyone who belongs to the forum? Would be interested in comparing results as I am just up the street, but with a bit higher elevation. Looked like a Yagi of some sort.

@radar
Dont get too excited. There is a nice tower near a Dundas & second. Well, I ask the guy there about the tower. He stated that the tower was for radio (ham/CB?) and not for TV. >;

So, All i can say. Is go up to the house. And ask what the tower is for.

Read ya l8r,
Al