: ON - London, St. Thomas, Woodstock, Goderich - OTA
2009-08-29, 07:27 PM
Well I got around this afternoon to installing the Channel Master Rotor. I picked up a two foot piece and 4 foot piece of alluminum 1 1/2 pipe to replace my galvinized fence post from The Metal Superstore on Oxford Street. This pipe is just as strong as the galvinized pipe but twice as light. I used the 2 foot piece for the rotor mount and the 4 foot piece for the antenna portion. The literature said that the pipe for the rotor portion should be nor more than three feet so I just mounted the antenna at exactly three foot mark.
I ran the control wire down to my bedroom (about 25 feet) through a roof vent, into the attic then I drilled a hole to go through the return air space in my bedroom where the controller sits beside my bedroom television.
It is a nice little unit. I performed a sync for the controller with the motor, and viola I was ready to set antenna positions. I have all my DX positions set.
For example: for channel 42 CKCO out of the Oil Springs area I found where my picture was the best. Then I programmed 42 into the controller. Now I did the same for channel 31 CITY from Woodstock transmitter and set it on the controller for 31. I did this for Buffalo, Erie, Younstown, Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, and Flint.
Honestly this is so much over kill for me but, now (I hope) I don`t have to run up to the roof all the time.
Finally I am content.
Following your logic with the total system losses, I`m pretty sure you cannot get more gain than what your antenna is designed for. So basically the introduction of the preamp is to keep what marginal signal that might be received at the antenna to stay so your tuner may get that signal which usually get lost by the time the signal reaches the tuner.
The DB8 is excellent for the fringe signals. It has the extra umph that the 4221HD did not. Don`t get me wrong I really like the 4221HD and it served me well when I had it up. But I have noticed a diiference in signal strength`s and reliability in my upgrade.
Reporting from London, this is PanaMark
take care guys
2009-08-30, 12:15 AM
Mark, congrats on the new rotor!
Sounds like you did a great instal.
Take some pics when you get a chance.
2009-08-30, 04:05 AM
panamark: do you ever get co-channel interference between CITY-TV-2 Woodstock, and WPXD-DT (both on 31), at least during tropo events?
2009-08-30, 08:43 AM
RingtailedFox panamark: do you ever get co-channel interference between CITY-TV-2 Woodstock, and WPXD-DT (both on 31), at least during tropo events?
The only time I got interference on channel 31 was when WJW-DT was on RF 31 and even then I had only gotten that channel like twice. WPXD-DT on a tropo day has never seen the light of day up here in London. It doesn't even cause digital bleeding though on RF31. Mind ya I had never checked it before the rotor was installed on account I never had channel 31 loaded. When pointed towards Detroit market 31 has big issues with ghosting and such. On the next tropo days I'll have a look for it. I know WKBD-DT trys to come in on 14 which is occupied by CITS analog and that station is way to strong to allow it to be received.
Any news on your antenna front?
2009-08-31, 01:41 PM
hey everyone, I did a little upgrade to my primitive setup and I'm running into an overload problem with my preamp. Here is what I've got. I have a CM 4221hd. I haven't modified it yet other than removing the plastic clips. From the antenna I have 6 feet rg6 cable into the CM 7777 preamp. From the preamp, I am running 50 feet of rg6 cable into the power supply. From the power supply I have 3 feet of rg6 into a splitter, then 6 feet of rg6 to my HDTV. The secondary output from the splitter runs through 35 feet of rg6 to an old crt tv in another room.
Most of the Byron channels are overlaoding neighbouring channels, although the only one that is blocking out another channel that I could get is 40. It is blocking out 42 sarnia completely on the HDTV, on the old TV in the other room 42 is visible but with a bar of interference that moves across the screen. What do you think my best option is? Would a 6 db or 9db attenuator work or would I lose too much of ch 42.
How about if I just ran more cable to the HDTV or a longer cable from the antenna to the preamp maybe? I was looking at some variable attenuators online but they can get very pricey.
I would appreciate any help that anyone can give me. Thanks.
2009-08-31, 03:17 PM
The problem you are experiencing is most likely overload of the CM7777 preamplifier. That amp, while an excellent one is easily prone to overload from strong local transmitters. To test that you need to remove the amplifier and power supply from your coax cable and splice the cable using a threaded barrel splice connector (F81). Then check your signal levels and presence of overload absent the amplifier.
The 7777 is a good amplifier better suited to rural locations well removed from strong local signals as found in urban areas. If you find the overload interference is gone without the amp, you can buy a notch filter (or trap as they are sometimes called) for the specific channel causing the interference and insert it ahead of the amplifier.
I reside near Port Stanley and I purchased a CM7778 which is the little brother to the 7777. Even my 7778 on tropo days is susceptible to overload here.
2009-08-31, 04:10 PM
Thanks for the reply. If I buy a notch filter or trap for ch 40 would it block out the channel entirely or just reduce it? I still want to be able to watch ch 40.
2009-08-31, 04:15 PM
Just reduce the strength. Be prepared to pay $$$.
2009-08-31, 05:39 PM
Well, I managed to finally get the Antenna up and running with a rotor, thanks to the nice installers from Ardiel's. Here's to a 35 foot ladder and a properly done eaves mount!
@Panamark - would you mind posting your rotor angle settings for picking up your USA stations?
2009-08-31, 06:52 PM
So nice to hear from local London area people regarding reception and equipment issues. Keep it up guys.
First things first
would you mind posting your location within the city or at the very least your tvfool results so we can see exactly the prox. from the transmitter's. The 7777 is a very strong pre amp. I have mine set on combo and capped off the VHF input. From this perhaps we can see what could be improved. Nice to hear from you.
from my location:
100 degrees - Buffalo
145 degrees - Erie
175 degrees - Youngstown, Pittsburgh
200 degrees - Cleveland
225 degrees - Toledo, Bowling Green
255 degrees - Detroit, Lansing
280 degrees - Flint
keep in mind your location might be slightly off depending on the size of you pole you used. It recommends 1 1/4 and I used 1 1/2 inch pipe diameter. Also it is very important to set you default position N with a compass on the actual rotor itself using the arrow located on it.
Last night I had three of the Erie stations in very strong 24-1, 54-1, and 66-1 and I actually pulled in 8-1 WROC-DT from Rochester, NY when I pointed towards Buffalo last night.
Hope this helps
2009-08-31, 08:38 PM
The only thing i can say to worry about is
watch for WNYB overwiriting WVIZ (rf26)
and WVIB overwriting WADL (rf 39).
Also TVO vs WUAB on rf 28
Hopefully it doesnt matter but it may.
Also, if you can. Take notes on which market is the most "reliable" for us Londoners to receive.
Thanks a dozen.
Yes you likely need to reduce the overload from ch40. Ch69 should also be overloading. But it should not matter to much. As the american TV station are using <51 now. (Unless you want to pick 61 src from kitchener)
The other stations on the byron tower shouldnt be overloading to much as their just LP stations.
Also, If CBC & Omni1 take their new RF assignments. The should be overloading on rf 48 & rf49. So depending on how much a notch filter costs. it may not be wise to get a notch filter for 40.
Read ya l8r,
2009-08-31, 08:41 PM
About your rotor.
Do you mean true North or Magnetic North?
Read ya l8r
2009-08-31, 09:34 PM
I picked up a nice compass from Novack`s on Saturday and got a quick tutoring on it from the salesman. Nice store by the way.
From this compass I set it to what I believe was True North. This is what I used for my basis set point and rotor arrow placement.
This one was funny from last night
I started at 250 degrees and was getting 4-1 WDIV-HD Deroit, then I left it on that channel and rotated back towards Buffalo, at around 180 degrees it remapped to 45-1, 45-2, 45-3 WNEO-DT from Youngstown area then when it landed at 105 dergees it remapped to 8-1 WROC-DT Rochester, NY. I was laughing so hard that I had an NBC, then PBS to a CBS all with one minute to each other. The signals were in an out and not stable though. Please keep that in mind. It really wasn t a great tropo night though.
As you can see overwriting from the same RF in different markets will be a reality.
Don`t forget to do the sync with the rotor and control box. Then your in business.
2009-08-31, 11:41 PM
Success! I was able to get FOX and PBS from Erie. Trying to scan Cleavland as well now. Having a few problems getting my MythTV setup to properly scan channels. Anyone in the London area have experience with a MythTV setup willing to share data?
2009-09-01, 12:37 AM
Beware the tropo!
Tonight was a good night, so your results may not be reliable (sorry), but keep at it.
2009-09-01, 03:52 AM
RadarBoy, just use the HTPC Forum (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31) to ask about MythTV setup. ;)
2009-09-01, 08:08 AM
Just to get back to your question regarding my location in London. I live in central London near Hamilton Road. According to TVFOOL I am 7.1 miles from the Byron transmitters, 3 miles from A channel transmitter. As I said the only real problem is 40 blocking out 42. As someone mentioned this will be only temporary until the digital conversion so I don't want to spend too much on new hardware. for example I looked up the winegard ut-2700 and it was $90 US! I'm not sure how much notch filters are, I might just try the Source and see if a 6 db attenuator and a longer run of cable helps.
2009-09-01, 11:41 AM
for example I looked up the winegard ut-2700 and it was $90 US! I'm not sure how much notch filters are, I might just try the Source and see if a 6 db attenuator and a longer run of cable helps.
An attenuator will only reduce everything for you including the stations you are trying to receive. The game plan is to obtain the highest signal to noise ratio one can muster. This is hindered by long cable runs, etc.
Try removing the preamplifier and then see what your reception is like.
For notch filters, Tin Lee in Toronto manufactures some great ones.
2009-09-01, 04:55 PM
Hi - I'm just starting to look into going OTA but I don't know how successful I would be living in Tillsonburg (about 20 minute drive south of Woodstock). Has anyone had any success picking up HD channels from this area? Also can anyone recommend a store in this area to buy an appropriate antenna and whatever else might be needed from?
2009-09-01, 05:07 PM
I think you are going to have a pretty good shot at Erie channels. I get them sometimes and I'm in Hamilton. There is a OTA supplier in Hamilton, but maybe someone from London can set you up for something closer.