@goforit
hmmm....I really liked your newest set up. Guess what, I am gonna perform the hack on my second 4221HD and revisit the stacked setup, with my Winegard HDP-269 preamp (still awaiting arrival from Winegard itself after the two previous blew up).
You know the fun part of this hobby is doing things like this. You sit down and channel surf and DX and you think to yourself, what thing can I tweak next?
Yup it is my constant quest from here in London a.k.a. Fringe City.
Mark:

Good luck with your new set-up. One thing I will do that you've done is the grounding. I see (from the pimp thread) that you grounded the antenna into a grounding rod, into the ground I assume? Also, you grounded the coax outside, but not into the grounding rod? How was it grounded/attach to? I am also really interested in how your reception changes after the grounding- all the best!

@goforit
Yes the mast is grounded to a 4 foot copper rod driven into the ground beside the house with 10AWG wire.
I left the coax ground 14AWG run to the electric meter outside on the same one as the cable television did theirs.
Reception strength has not really changed because of this. However I feel a lot better with regards to my updated grounding situation.
Still waiting for my Winegard preamp to arrive but I did get my KitzTech one in on Friday. Nice little amp.

I guess you can tell you are hard core OTA when..., it never stops, always thinking of ways to tweak your set-up, and I'm just as guilty. My wife thinks I'm nuts- but hey, it's free HD TV. Even my kids are indentifying antennas as we pass by houses. Now, I'm thinking of raising my antenna, setting up the grounding block, trying the XG91, RC amp, etc. etc..., building my own- thank you DHC. Cheers To All!

Funny, my son can name most antenna's we see driving too.
According to him, the Parabolic is his favorite. damn to funny, I thought you were describing me there in that statement also.

Hilarious!!

@ PanaMark

I'm interested how the KitzTech amp deals with strong close signals and possible overload once you test it out. Looks like a cheap very low noise alternative to more common amplifiers.


Funny, my son can name most antenna's we see driving too.
According to him, the Parabolic is his favorite. damn to funny, I thought you were describing me there in that statement also.

LOL I still do that :D Too bad I didn't have much of any OTA knowledge when I was a kid. I could have had more channels to watch hehe.

Well, last night with my new setup I grew fustrated as even 5-1 WEWS-DT was not displaying a picture and I always have this most of the time. At around 9:45 PM WEWS did surface and the signal strength started to increase. So I did some channel surfing and 43-1 WUAB was coming in but it was acting so strange. I would get 58% signal strength but it would pixelate and this was annoying. There is something going on when I do a stacked setup that causes this as I never get this with just one antenna set up.
Frig, I went up on the roof there around 10:30ish and turned my bottom antenna towards the Detroit market.
This corrected the annoying pixelation with WUAB.
The Detroit market was booming. 4-1 WDIV-HD and its sub channel THIS were coming in rock solid (90%) also 7-1 WXYZ-HD and it's sub channel's RTV, and Weather had signal near (90%). low and behold I got 20-1 WMYD-HD (65%), 38-1 WADL-DT and there new 38-2 Sports were coming in very well (I only ever had this for like 5 mins about 2 months ago, 56-1 WTVS and its subs (85%) and lastly 62-1 WJW (75%). W66BV LPTV Channel 66 Detroit TBN was coming in and channel W48AV Detroit ION WPXD analog. Some kinda shopping channel
Oh I was glued to 56-1 PBS and watched it for a while.
Of the Cleveland's on the other antenna, basically only WEWS-DT was in most of the night with WUAB-DT in and out of reception. I got a brief signal lock on 49-1 WEAO-HD.

@Phil81
I don't have the KitzTech amp gain turned to high, My guess is I have it set at around 8-10 dB gain, or just a little bit below half. The local stations don't seem to be affected to badly except 14 CITS. For some reason this one starts to snow up a bit when the tropo gets heavy.
I am a bit surprised but it has helped clear up channel 29 CIII Global and 42 CKCO a tad, and 13 CKCO has improved alot in picture quality.
Heck for the price, I was well worth it and has fit well in my application as I await for my Winegard to come in. A spare amp is not bad to have.
I would not hesitate to pick one up. I recommend it.

@syngh80

Yes. Basically, there are 12 local channels that are available.
VHF - GTN, A, CTV.
UHF - CTS, TVO, *SUN*, OM2, GTN, CITY, CBC, CTV, E!, CBCF, OM1

Get a VHF antenna. Point VHF towards Kitchener should get you GTN, CTV. Note: you may have ghostings issues with A depending on how VHF is aligned.

Now the Biggy is the UHF antenna. 4221hd is excellent antenna. Pointed towards Cleveland (thanks god for Lake Erie) will pick up WEWS (abc) and some other cleveland stations. Stacked and hacked could improve reception results if done correctly. Of course antenna pointed towards Cleveland will cause ghosting in other channels. (which should be corrected when "locals switch over to digital") So you have a decision where you point the antenna.

For example. When i have my antenna pointed east. I get citytv clearly. Most of the byron towers stations come in good. But something like CBC is a little blurry.
When I point SW. Most of the byron stations are excellent picture. But Citytv is like old scramble TV channel. This should take some practise until you things just right.

* Also, I recommend using at least RG6 for cable. This will reduce line loss in your cable.
* A tripod can be mounted on the roof or balcony.
* Grounding Rod should be used to protect your equipment.
* Pre amp can strengthen your signal at the antenna. Note: Having a good pre amp can be a god send. Whereas a bad one can cause tons issues like. Overload & drowning out weak channels.
* UHF + VHF combiner can be used to combine 2 antennas.

@Panamark

You lost 2 preamps? There something wrong with your setup somewhere.

Read ya l8r,
Al

that's impressive. I know how far cincy is from Windsor... like driving from here to Peterborough...

Panamark: you managed to pull in W66BV in LONDON??? What are you USING up there, man? that stations' only at 10 kW from the Renaissance Center (772 feet for HAAT).

WADL-DT recently switched from "The Word" (Gospel network they run in the USA and England), to running Universal Sports (WMYD-DT2 used to broadcast it before dropping it).

Well, last night with my new setup I grew fustrated as even 5-1 WEWS-DT was not displaying a picture and I always have this most of the time. At around 9:45 PM WEWS did surface and the signal strength started to increase. So I did some channel surfing and 43-1 WUAB was coming in but it was acting so strange. I would get 58% signal strength but it would pixelate and this was annoying.
It's not you. Its the un-July like weather conditions. Last night (13th) was terrible here for Cleveland but everywhere else was okay. Today (Tue) signals were extremely bad when I checked around 5pm but they started coming back around 6 and mostly stayed like till around 1230am before becoming quite weak again.

The channel 32 and 59 were TVO stations from right here locally and in Chatham. Likely it was WKBD CW50 that caused your digital snow on 14 from down this way. What is amazing is getting ch66 from downtown Detroit! That high 900'+ high terrain really pays off.

I have no idea were ch 46 was from. Not really possible around here because of WUPW using RF 46 for digital.
The PSIP issues you had with WMYD-DT were not on your end, but rather on WMYD's end

+1! Their psip mapping has now been broken for over 3 weeks and not once has it worked since then, its about time it's fixed permanently if anyone is to take WMYD seriously.
picked up WLWT 35.1 90% for about 1 hour.

WLWT NBC 5-1 (1000kW ND) RF 35. Good catch, thanks for posting this. I'll look to the S for it more frequently. I hope CFTV 34 doesn't interfere with dx'ing it.

How's your reception of other digital/analog out of market channels up there?

Off and on for the past couple of weeks, I rebuilt a 4-bay bowtie antenna of PVC pipe. I reused the bowties, and the balun, but I needed to replace the phase lines. I was planning on building a SBGH, but I think I'll build it out of wood first and use it as a template - I find a wooden antenna easier to modify than cutting pvc pipe.

Tonight (between 8:30pm and 9:45pm), I mounted my new 4-bay bowtie in the same spot as I had my previous DIY antenna on July 5th... I pointed the antenna South, then began rotating it towards the SW in increments of a few degrees. I kept re-scanning for channels each time, but I received no Cleveland channels!?!?? I was able to pickup ABC 5-1 WEWS-DT and UNI 61-1 WQHS-DT two weeks ago - see: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=950025&post578 (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=950025&postcount=578)

Since it has been cooler and raining for the last few days, perhaps the weather has affected OTA reception from Cleveland? I've been without an antenna for almost 2 weeks, as I disassembled my first 4-bay bowtie, so I'm not sure what happened. How is reception of the Cleveland channels for you Londoners? I didn't have time tonight to re-mount my antenna towards Detroit, but I'll see if I can do that sometime this week.

I don't believe there is a problem with my new PVC antenna, as most of the "local" channels come in with minimal ghosting/snow, despite not pointing my antenna directly towards the broadcast antennas (like the Byron or CFPL/'A' antennas). Suntv 19-1&19-2 is perfect no matter what direction the antenna is pointed. As expected, reception of Oil Springs broadcast antennas (GTV 29 and CTV 42) and Alvinston broadcast antenna E! 51) are quite snowy. If I get a chance this week to remount the antenna towards Detroit, then analogs GTV 29, CTV 42, and E! 51 should come in clearer, as before.

How is reception of the Cleveland channels for you Londoners?
Even with my setup the Cleveland's have been non existent since the weather has got better from the few days of rain and overcast we had.
Last night I had WEWS-DT 5-1 for at the most 5 mins. and even then it was barely coming in the rest of the night.
Welcome to summer tropo season. Sometimes you can have a lock for 3 days straight then 3 days with out.
This is why when I post my results I always stress that they are not reliable for everyday television.
I continue to strive for a more reliable stable set up however more and more I am realizing that you really can't squeeze water from rocks.
Don't be discouraged, rather let it encourage you to strive for better for OTA signals in our area.
Mark

Good News,
Rogers is dropping the Erie TV. Hopefully, the Erie channels respond by increasing their strength towards London. <:

@ Pana & BCF

About RF 41. I think that WXYZ also uses that RF.

WGGN http://www.wggn.tv/
(RF 42, Is receivable, if CKCO 3 is not) is a regilous channel.
52-1 Christian Television Stations (as oppose to Burlington Crossroads Televison Station. RF 14 on the Byron Tower.)
52-2 is a Christian Radio Station

WKYC is building a new tower. The tower not expected to be finished until Nov. So adjustments will be made until they get things just right.

26-12 + 26-13 is likely artifacts from the WVIZ channels.

Read ya l8r,
Al

wait a second, I thought WKYC and WVIZ already share space on a new tower that was just installed. I'm pretty sure I seen the picture's somewhere.

here it is: http://ohiodigitaltv.blogspot.com/2009/05/wkycwviz-tower-nearly-done.html

I'd like to be able to receive Cleveland area WGGN-DT 52-1, 52-2CKCO 42 in Oil Springs/Sarnia mostly kills off chances of receiving this channel, not that there is anything really worth watching on it. I rarely even check for it but I can get it sometimes under better conditions. The WGGN transmitter is just NNW of Ashland OH about 15-20 miles SW of all the Cleveland towers.@Phil81
I had all the channel's solid from around 5:30 pm until I went to bed around 11ish. When I say solid, most were in the 90's for signal strength. Love my pre amp!Some channels I can get did come back a bit late last night, but then again it was a tropo night to some extent. WILX Lansing returned very strong for a time much stronger than WKYC-HD. Both were there from 11p to 1am when both faded away. Stuff from Cleveland is now very volatile compared to the last two weeks even. WEWS and many times WKYC were there esp at night over the last 14 days. I'm going to wait and see if things return to how they were before Fri. I have not touched even one thing in the total setup I have. Hmmm all these tv reception variables are starting to make me paranoid!

Rogers is dropping the Erie TV. Hopefully, the Erie channels respond by increasing their strength towards London.A thread discussing the effects on the two small PBS stations dropped by Rogers is located here:

Can Canadian OTA Viewers Save WPBS, WQLN Dropped By Rogers? (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=109904)

that's right BCF,
I went on the roof and turned my one antenna towards Erie, as I am doing some tests and BOOM some of the Buffalo stations are coming in. 2-1 WGRZ and it's sub channel's RF 33 and 23-1 WNLO or whatever on RF 32.

is it possible for london-area residents with an ultra-deep-fringe setup to receive both buffalo AND detroit stations? (and if they're on the same channel, possibly by using a rotator to choose between which channels they get?)

is it possible for london-area residents with an ultra-deep-fringe setup to receive both buffalo AND detroit stations? (and if they're on the same channel, possibly by using a rotor to choose between which channels they get?)

sure,
you don't even need a rotor. I just use two antenna's with a splitter used as a combiner
Channel's from Buffalo and Detroit are located on different digital channel's. Mind you some of the virtual PISP's map to the same channel. My television just list's both of them.
As you can imagine I have quite a bit of channel's loaded on my television. The market's I have received are Buffalo, Erie, Youngstown, Cleveland, Toledo, and Detroit.

Hello, I'm In St. Thomas and I have:

ATI HD AIW (analog (NTSC), digital/HDTV (ATSC) and unencrypted digital cable (ClearQAM)Tuner card
Bell expressvue 6141 (OTA HD Tuner)
SONY KDL-40s300 (ATSC with QAM Tuner)

You might be able to pick up the following:
* WEWS-DT (ABC Cleveland) on 15 <--- omnidirectional transmitter, by far the strongest american signal in the London-St. Thomas area
* WKYC-DT (NBC Cleveland) on 17
* WQLN-DT (PBS Erie) on 50.

The London-area locals will also come in loud and clear:
* CIII-TV 6 (Global Paris)
* CFPL-TV 10 (A London)
* CKCO-TV 13 (CTV Kitchener) <--- if you're high enough, you might be able to drag this one in
* CITS-TV-2 14 (CTS London)
* CICO-TV-18 (TVOntario Strathroy)
* CKXT-DT-2 19 (SunTV London)
* CJMT-TV-1 20 (OMNI.2 London) pretty weak, but i picked it up here in windsor from tropo skip a couple times, with strong adjacent-channel interference from WOIO-TV 19 (when it was on 19) and WMYD-DT 21!
* CITY-TV-2 31 (Citytv Woodstock)
* CBLN-TV 40 (CBC London)
* CHCH-TV-2 51 (E! Alvinston) <--- Over 1 Megawatt of power!
* CBLFT-TV-9 53 (SRC London)
* CFMT-TV-1 69 (OMNI.1 London) <--- Over 1 Megawatt of power!

The others (WVIZ-DT 25, WVPX-DT 23) are either too weak and/or directional. WOIO-DT (CBS Cleveland) on 10 would also get trashed by CFPL-TV on 10 (co-channel interference).

You might have better luck with the erie stations:
* WICU-DT 12 (NBC Erie)
* WJET-DT 24 (ABC Erie)
* WSEE-DT (CBS Erie) on 16
* WFXP-DT (FOX Erie) on 22 might also pop in on tropo events now and then, but i would not count on it as a regular visitor or even permanent resident.

If you have a rotator, you may even be able to drag in some Detroit, Toledo, and Buffalo signals during tropo events, and some people in the higher parts of North London have seen Detroit signals on a regular basis with the right equipment...

Do you have a relatively clear (and high) view to the south? if you're between St. Thomas and the lake, that's a good thing.

vuebots, a high quality antenna or pair of antennas is your first necessity.

See the Antenna Chart and the OTA FAQ so that you don't waste your money on junk. Personally I'd start with a CM4221HD.