Hello all:

Just wanted to add my results. Last weekend, I had a 30 foot tower erected and a CM 4228 antenna mounted on it. It feeds the TV (Sony KDFE50A10) through about 70 feet of RG-6--no preamp. (No splits at this point, either.) All the following digital stations come through with a solid lock:

ID Aff Sub 1 Sub 2 Sub 3 From
------------ ------------ ------ -------- -------- ----------------------
WNLO The CW 23.1 23.2 23.3 Grand Island
WUTV Fox 29.1 29.2 29.3 Grand Island
WNED PBS 43.1 43.2 43.3 Grand Island
WIVB CBS 4.1 4.2 4.3 S. Buffalo
WKBW ABC 7.1 7.2 S. Buffalo
WGRZ NBC 33.1 33.2 S. Buffalo
CBLT-DT CBC 5.1 Toronto
CBLFT CBC French 25.1 Toronto
CFTO-DT CTV 40.4 Toronto
CFMT OMNI 2 44.3 Toronto
CJMT OMNI 1 47.1 Toronto
CITY-DT City TV 57.1 Toronto
CKXT-DT Sun TV 66.1 Toronto

I've read about CFTO's problems with PSIP info but it seems most people are able to tune to the 9.1 virtual channel. That does not work for me. I have to use 40.4 (and the ".4" is not a typo)! In fact, while aiming the antenna, neither CBC or CFTO were coming in on their virtual channels which led to some to some consternation. CBC then worked properly after once tuning to the physical channel. The Buffalo channels all worked fine from the start.

Now, I just need to manufacture some time to actually watch some of this great HD TV! In fact, the next step is to live up to my handle. I'm going to order an EyeTV device so I can record in HD.

I'm especially pleased that a rotor is unnecessary. The 4228 appears to have a wide-enough pickup pattern to receive both Toronto and Buffalo even though they are roughly 80 degrees apart for me!

Craig

I've read about CFTO's problems with PSIP info but it seems most people are able to tune to the 9.1 virtual channel. That does not work for me. I have to use 40.4 (and the ".4" is not a typo)!

Same problem here. And OMNI 2 is also a problem. Philips HDTV.

I have to type in 40.4, it will not scan in. Same with 44.

I don't know whether other posters here have reached the same conclusion but this OTA exercise sure drives you over the edge trying to achieve the optimum number of channels. I can see now why Cable and Satellite were resounding successes.

I have now received my second CM4221 and both are still situated on the second floor, but no matter how many times I try adjusting the position of each one, I get a different result each time. I've had as many as 14 channels altogether and a minimum of 12. I've had Toronto Channels 5,9,44 at one time. The number of Buffalo channels fluctuates, but have never included NBC, and now 29 has disappeared.

I'm beginning to think that maybe I should have gone with the CM4228, for at least I would only have one antenna to adjust. Does anyone know what is needed to convert two CM4221s into a CM4228 ? Maybe this bedroom height prevents me from capturing the elusive channels, and now doubt is beginning to creep in as to whether the attic height will be sufficient to do the trick. :(

It sounds like you need more height.I have a CM4221 above the peek on a 2story house and I get all US and Canadian except CFTO-DT,which puzzles me.It Maybe this tv ,which is a panny th42px60u, I don,t know?.You would think if you could get Citytv rock solid off the CN tower you would get CFTO no problem.

no matter how many times I try adjusting the position of each one, I get a different result each time. I've had as many as 14 channels altogether and a minimum of 12. I've had Toronto Channels 5,9,44 at one time. The number of Buffalo channels fluctuates, but have never included NBC, and now 29 has disappeared.(

JGVP, are you combining the two antennas? Or are you switching between them? If you are combining, you'll have problems with signal cancellation. Try setting up one of your 4221s for Toronto, and the other for Buffalo, and then switch between them. I have a 4221 and a Silver Sensor set up this way, and it works great. It took me a few weeks of frustration before I gave up on combining though.

JGVP, are you combining the two antennas? Or are you switching between them? If you are combining, you'll have problems with signal cancellation. Try setting up one of your 4221s for Toronto, and the other for Buffalo, and then switch between them. I have a 4221 and a Silver Sensor set up this way, and it works great. It took me a few weeks of frustration before I gave up on combining though.

I have to combine them for they both connect with one connection on the Miglia MiniTV HD tuner module. I take the single lead from each 4221 and connect them to a 2-into-1 connector and attach that to the MMTV HD. Again, I suppose I should have gone the 4228 route.

It sounds like you need more height.I have a CM4221 above the peek on a 2story house and I get all US and Canadian except CFTO-DT,which puzzles me.It Maybe this tv ,which is a panny th42px60u, I don,t know?.You would think if you could get Citytv rock solid off the CN tower you would get CFTO no problem.

Yes, I don't get this CFTO problem at all. If you can bring in Buffalo PBS "rock solid", it astounds me that CFTO doesn't come in at all. Do you have a mast or a tripod above the roof ? I was trying to avoid going outside, but even though I am close to the Lake I think the lower altitude is working against me.

There is a thread about the CFTO problem in the main OTA Forum. It isn't a reception problem, as in signal strength, its a PSIP data problem and it is described in that thread. PSIP itself is described in the OTA Forum Knowledge Base & FAQ.

I have to combine them for they both connect with one connection on the Miglia MiniTV HD tuner module. I take the single lead from each 4221 and connect them to a 2-into-1 connector and attach that to the MMTV HD. Again, I suppose I should have gone the 4228 route.

You can buy an A/V selector switch (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=AVSelectors&product=1501233) at The Source by Circuit City (or somewhere else). Connect both antennas to the switch. Then run a single cable from the switch to your tuner. When you push the buttons on the switch you are selecting which antenna feed is going to your tuner. This gets around the problem of the signals canceling each other.

JGVP, are you combining the two antennas? Or are you switching between them? If you are combining, you'll have problems with signal cancellation. Try setting up one of your 4221s for Toronto, and the other for Buffalo, and then switch between them. I have a 4221 and a Silver Sensor set up this way, and it works great. It took me a few weeks of frustration before I gave up on combining though.

First, I should indicate that the 4221 for Toronto is aimed due east, while the 4221 for Buffalo is aimed due south. Tonight I acquired an A/B switch: A) Toronto channels, B) Buffalo channels. When I did the autoscan for the Toronto channels the results were CBC and OMNI together with a lot of Buffalo channels (?). Then I did an autoscan for the Buffalo channels and for once NBC together with the 29s came up with the other usual Buffalo channels.

It seemed for a moment that I had succeeded, but then when I reverted to the Toronto channels again by switching back to A), all the channels had disappeared. :( So, it looks like the only way I'm going to be able to make this work is to perform the 4221 x 2 conversion to 4228 to result in one connection and one total autoscan. Anyone know where the conversion kit maybe had ? Either that or I have two CM4221s for sale ! Mark ( Yaemon) want to do a swap ? ;)

First, I should indicate that the 4221 for Toronto is aimed due east, while the 4221 for Buffalo is aimed due south. Tonight I acquired an A/B switch: A) Toronto channels, B) Buffalo channels. When I did the autoscan for the Toronto channels the results were CBC and OMNI together with a lot of Buffalo channels (?). Then I did an autoscan for the Buffalo channels and for once NBC together with the 29s came up with the other usual Buffalo channels.

It seemed for a moment that I had succeeded, but then when I reverted to the Toronto channels again by switching back to A), all the channels had disappeared. :( So, it looks like the only way I'm going to be able to make this work is to perform the 4221 x 2 conversion to 4228 to result in one connection and one total autoscan. Anyone know where the conversion kit maybe had ? Either that or I have two CM4221s for sale ! Mark ( Yaemon) want to do a swap ? ;)

Changing to a 4228 will not help as its even more directional than 4221.Is there no way to manually add in channels with your tuner.All of my tuners allow you add channels in some way without doing a complete erasing and re-scanning back in.

Changing to a 4228 will not help as its even more directional than 4221.Is there no way to manually add in channels with your tuner.All of my tuners allow you add channels in some way without doing a complete erasing and re-scanning back in.

I don't know yet what the reason for it is but I am receiving Buffalo channels ( NBC has gone again,) and yet can only still pick up one Toronto channel ( 5.1) tonight. I did perform a manual input exercise, ( 78 channels on each of the Toronto and Buffalo antennae,) but did not manage to add one more channel although during the procedure I was coming across channels that produced very good signal strengths, but after adding them they still didn't appear in the channel listings. Incidentally, when you start this "Set Up Assistant" exercise, it immediately erases all the channels from the current listings. All in all, this is becoming the mother of all wheel spinning exercises.

I guess a note off to Miglia/Elgato is in order.

buy yourself a real antenna, and then you'll get all the football, from FOX, and NBC via OTA.
Can you recommend a powerful indoor antenna or is there such a thing?

Can you recommend a powerful indoor antenna or is there such a thing?

You need an outdoor CM 4221 or CM 4228.

i don't know where you are located, but i've heard the Silver Sensor Indoor Antenna has good results, it's not inexpesnive at all.

I live in a 2 story house in Northeast Oakville. Considering I already have purchased a 6208 and get monthly service from Cogeco, are the OTA benefits worth it vs. paying an extra $10/month for a non-PVR HD box?

I have recently purchased a 2nd HDTV (and this one has an ATSC tuner unlike my first one) and am not sure that I can get a satisfactory experience with OTA HD unless I spend a lot of time and/or money.

Indoor antennas - even I can hook one of those up. Climbing on my roof, drilling holes through the wall of my house - not high up on my list of things I'd like to do (although as long as the life insurance is paid up, my wf might welcome the idea).

Is there a local shop that allows for the try before you buy experience and helps educate the noobs of the world (and I assume that they can't be posted so a PM would be fine)?

I live at 3rd Line and Upper Middle Road in Oakville. I don't subscribe to cable or satellite so OTA reception is important to me.

Up until recently I was using a Radio Shack 15-1880 antenna and Samsung SIR-T451 HD receiver (bought at Circuit City in Amherst, NY) with pretty good results. However, I wanted better reception with fewer dropouts so I bit the bullet and bought the following equipment:

- Channel Master 4221 antenna (www.sensuz.com, approx $60 w/shipping)
- Winegard AP 4700 preamp (purchased via PayPal from Rich Wertman, a dealer in Buffalo NY, approx $65 w/shipping)

I went with an attic installation because my wife didn't want an antenna on our rooftop and I didn't feel comfortable about working on the roof.

None of this is groundbreaking stuff - I basically copied what worked for other people who have reported results on this site (thanks everyone).

Here's what I did:
- attached a piece of 1" PVC conduit (cut to length) to a joist in the attic.
- attached the antenna and the preamp to the PVC conduit.
- ran a 3' RG6 cable from the antenna to the "ant. input" jack on the preamp.
- ran a 12' RG6 cable from the "to power supply" jack on the preamp, connecting it to an approx. 35' RG6 cable that runs from an upstairs bedroom to the basement. The 35' RG6 was installed by a previous owner. I had to drill a hole in the ceiling of the bedroom closet so I could attach the 12' RG6 and the 35' RG6.
- where the 35' RG6 run ends in the basement, I installed the preamp's power supply.
- from the power supply, I ran 50' of RG6 to the SIR-T451 in the family room.
- positioned the antenna for optimal reception of both Toronto and Buffalo stations. I took my wife's cell phone into the attic and called her on the land line. She sat in front of the TV and reported on the signal strength of the stations while I moved the antenna. I could have used a compass but the trial and error method seems to have worked for us.

Here are the reception results, as of tonight (not including weather channels, duplicate channels, etc):

2-1 NBC 10 bars
4-1 CBS 10 bars
5-1 CBC 10 bars
7-1 ABC 10 bars
9-1 CTV 10 bars
23-1 The CW 10 bars
25-1 CBC(F) 7 bars
29-1 FOX 9 bars
43-1 PBS 10 bars
49-1 My TV 4-5 bars (frequent dropouts)
57-1 CITY 7 bars

My wife and I are very happy with the results. Thanks to everyone for all of the tips.

excellent results, and the word is that MYTV 49-1 is still running at a very lower power, so you have a good chance at getting that channel as well once they are running at full power.

Very helpful post... thank you.

I might have it much easier... the spot that the TV will eventually end up in would be our 2nd floor bedroom in which our closet has the attic access.

So, it sounds like I would need:

PVC pipe (presumably to mount the antenna and preamp and placed as high in the attic as possible)
Antenna
Preamp
1 3' length of RG6
1 unknown length of RG6 to connect the preamp and its power supply (probably located near the TV in my case)
1 short length of some sort of cable that goes from the power supply to the digital antenna input of my HDTV.

Or, I could simply rent an additional box and get more channels, but, from what has been posted here, PQ that is often surpassed by an OTA HD experience.

HI cannon fodder,

fyi, I like the stuff called "PVC conduit", as opposed to regular PVC pipe. PVC conduit is available in the electrical section at Home Depot. They also have PVC conduit clamps to attach the conduit to your attic joists. A 10' piece of conduit plus clamps should run you about $10.

The cable from the preamp power supply to your TV is RG6 cable (i.e., low loss coaxial cable), just like the others I mentioned in my post. Also available at Home Depot.

Best of luck.