You CANNOT leave the amplifier installed with no power. You MUST remove or bypass the amp when it is not powered.

The DB8 will exhibit between about 10 dB on channel 14 and up to 13.5 dB at the high UHF channels. This is when the antenna is faced directly at the signals. For signals off the main aim, reception will drop by 3dB at 12-20 degrees off either side then will drop very rapidly the further off axis you go.

Theoretically, take the forecasted NM, add the antenna gain, if using a pre-amp , subtract the noise figure and add the gain, then subtract all the insertion losses. If the result is still above zero, then the chances are fairly good that it will have sufficient signal power to work.

Please note that the predicted levels will vary considerably when working with fringe signals or with 2-edge diffractions. Sometimes, they are way off, sometimes they're pretty close when measured with real test equipment.

As close as you are to your locals, that 7777 is pretty much guaranteed to overload.

Thanks ProjectSHO.

I ran 10 tests. Five with the 7777 completely removed and the antenna facing different azimuths, and five with the 7777 in use and the antenna azimuths as in the earlier tests.

That's ten trips up an extension ladder to my lower roof, and ten trips up another folding ladder from that roof to the top of my house. I dislike the awkward trips back down more, though.

My very disappointing results with and without the 7777 are nearly identical. Only very slightly better with the 7777. I made a spreadsheet.

My conclusion is that the 7777 doesn't cause overloading, but also doesn't improve reception significantly. Maybe I got a lemon 7777?

But still, I think I should be able to get all the Toronto stations with an un-amped DB8 pointed there, yet I don't think I get a single one. I'll have to refer back to my spreadsheet.

I'm going to try to find a local installer for a consult. I think this antenna is bound for the in-laws' cottage.

Here's a link to that speadsheet on my google docs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As5ah5DPtUcmdGpSY1psSmFldWZRRGJKd0cyRHRUQmc

Dark green = perfect reception
Light green = some artifacting, but still watchable
Red = unwatchable, but picked up by the tv scan
Top row is (magnetic) azimuth

I rotated the antenna a few degrees south towards the NBC (2.1 real=33) tower and now I have lost FOX (29.1 real=14). I've also lost CBC (5.1 real=20) but CITY (57.1 real=44) may now be a little stronger.
I have a 4221HD on the roof plus a CM7777 preamp, but removed my distro amp. The 4221HD has the plastic covers removed and balun pulled out, but the reflector rods have not been shortened. Putting the distro amp back in didn't seem to help (or hurt) much if any so I left it out for now.

What do you folks think? Should I be using a different antenna?

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9900fc67eef3a1

I wonder if my pre-amp may not be appearing to work because I put a ground block between the pre-amp and the power supply.... Something to check when I get home tonight !!!

Wish me luck! :eek:

I've made some more changes and am now just fighting with 2.1 still.
I first disconnected the 7777 and replaced my 3way splitter with the distro amp. Removing the 7777 seemed to only slightly decrease the signal strength of channels that I was rcv'g OK. When I disconnected it it was pretty hot, not sure if that is indicative of a problem or not. So it looks like the 7777 isn't of much value in my location or else there is something wrong with mine.
Any thoughts on the 7777 in Burlington with a 4221HD pointed towards Buffalo?

I then double checked my antenna direction with the compass and saw that I had actually turned it too far south by a couple of degrees. I had figured that I had originally pointed the antenna at FOX at 131deg but realize now that it had always been pointed at around 137 because it was half way between FOX at 131 and ABC at 141. I had my wife watching the signal strength on a TV while moving the antenna and its amazing the difference a couple of degrees make.
My tvfool says that 2.1 is at 137 degrees so this is were I pointed it at now. I'm now getting 5.1 back (real 20 at 61 degrees) and everything else is pretty good as well, except for 2.1 which dropped out for an hour after the adjustment and then started to come back at a fairly weak strength with periods of breakup afterwards.
I'm pointed almost exactly at 2.1 at 137deg. Everything else in that direction, 4.1 (39) and 7.1 (38) have good signal strength. Any idea why I'm struggling with 2.1 (33)?

gregr1,

That's strange, as I get 2.1 perfectly, and I can only manage to get five channels, which isn't good. I wonder if we bought our 7777's at the same, slightly sketchy, shop.

What crossroads are you near? I'm downtown, near Brant & Victoria.

I suspect some of those cursed, tall condos along Lakeshore are blocking most of my signal from Buffalo. >:-(

A CM7777 is too strong an amp for this area. Too much signal will kill reception just as effectively as not enough.

Strikeslip,

I'm at Appleby and Uppermiddle, definitely I'm at a higher altitude from you because of my distance from the lake. Interesting that you get 2.1 but have problems with others, kind of the exact opposite of me. Any way you can add a steel pole to get your antenna higher? Based on my and your results it looks like the 7777 isn't of much use, it must be something interfering with the signal, perhaps in your case obstructions.
I purchased my 7777 locally in Burlington at a store known well for it's large inventory of electronic items and dudads. I should have driven to Save and Replay, might have received some good advice over there as well.
I tried the antenna directly to a 3way splitter and also to the CM distribution amp and saw a notable improvement with the amp, obviously the splitter was 3.5 to 7db of loss, but nothing is making 2.1 solid for me which I cannot figure out, especially considering how good 4.1, 7.1 and even 29.1 are.

We're definitely in Opposite-Land.

My 2.1 is perfect, and though my 29.1 scans in, it can only draw a bit of a picture before losing connection completely.

My antenna is on a pole about six feet above my chimney. My house is the highest on the street. The view up there isn't too bad. I google-earthed my LOS toward Grand Island and there aren't as many tall condos as I thought, unless the two along the way are the perfect blockers. Maybe my next step should be knocking down those condos, they're ugly anyway. Maybe it's the trees, but they aren't really that thick.

I had noticeable, but still unsatisfactory improvement last night after bypassing the grounding block. Still not able to get 29.1, but did get some others still at poor quality. I can't wrap my head around the 7777 being too strong when I'm having trouble pulling in weak signals from far away, yet CHCH nearby is always perfect. I don't see how a weaker pre-amp will be an improvement. My instinct is to go stronger to pull in the far away stations until the nearby CHCH ceases to work.

You definitely have a big elevation advantage. I don't think any buildings will obstruct you up there either. Looking at the station map, your situation makes more common sense in getting 29.1 but not 2.1. Maybe the edge of the escarpment near the falls is blocking 2.1 from you, but then it should also be blocked from me. Maybe there is some weird lake/condo-effect diffraction going on for me. Or maybe it is my 7777 since you have better results with your 7777 plus antenna with half the bays compared to mine.

My slightly less expensive solution would be to buy a CM-4221 antenna and try that as opposed to a weaker pre-amp. I know the wife would prefer a smaller one up there. Do you think an AntennasDirect DB8 would help you out? Maybe you want to try an antenna swap with me for testing/trading purposes? Do you have a list of all the channels you manage to pull in perfectly somewhere? I have a link to mine in post #1062 of this thread, only five.

:( I gave up and called Cogeco. I feel dirty. :(

We can't get 29.1 either. 2.1 doesn't come in consistently. I think that the higher the elevation the more likely some of the Buffalo channels are to come in. We have an Antennas Direct Db4e without a pre-amp, as well we have a satellite service. Also, i have read that the CM-7777 pre-amps have issues with sigals that are close by.

Does anyone know anything about CM-7001 ATSC tuners. We are looking to buy one to get the surround sound out of our OTA signal. Our TV does not have surround sound capabilities. It does have an ATSC tuner. The result is currently our OTA is in Stereo (even HD), but our satellite signal is in surround sound.

On my TV I had to run a optical cable from the TV to my receiver to get surround. Does your TV have an digital or optical output?

There is a digital output that we are using for the OTA audio. This is connected to a sound bar. The problem is our TV does not have surround sound capabilities. The satellite receiver does.

I finally got a new OTA setup and am extremely happy. The installer pulled in 35 channels at ~133°, then later I rotated the antenna to pull in 2 more, then later tonight ION showed up to make it 40. I have it at 122° now towards Rochester and am only missing repeated channels 6, 28, 31 from my list. The only channels that aren't rock solid are 29 Fox and 51 ION, they come and go.

- halfway between Milton and Guelph
- Winegard HD7698P antenna, CM7777 pre amp, Eagle Aspen rotor, 30' tower

2-1,2 = WGRZ
4-1 = WIVB
5-1 = CBLT
6-1,2 = CIII
7-1 = WKBW
9-1 = CFTO
11-1 = CHCH
13-1 = CKCO
17-1,2,3 = WNED
19-1 = TVO
23-1 = WNLO
25-1 = CBLFT
26-1,2,3,4 = WNYB
28-1 = TVO
29-1,2 = WUTV
31-1 = CityTV
36-1 = CITS
40-1 = CJMT
41-1,2 = CIII
47-1 = CFMT
49-1,2 = WNYO
51-1,2,3 = ION
57-1 = CITYTV
67-1,2,3,4 = WBBZ
69-1 = CJMT

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=1047&pictureid=5548

Hi,
I've just moved to Oakville and am new to OTA. (moving finally gave a chance to ditch cable).
What type of reception are people getting in the Dundas and Third Line area?
I am trying to use an indoor antenna and am not sure if I should go external.

Thanks,
Shabaaz

I just made a stealth hawk (cost was about $5!) http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1149158&postcount=289
and pleased to report pulling in 21 channels all between 65-100% signal strength. The antenna is mounted in the attic of a 3 floor townhouse with 25 feet of cable to the ATSC tuner with no amplifier (yet). This is probably about 30 feet elevation.

Channels that come in all the time: 2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, 11-1, 17-1, 17-2, 17-3, 19-1, 23-1, 25-1, 35-1, 36-1, 40-1, 41-1, 41-2, 47-1, 49-1, 57-1)
2-1, 2-2 (NBC) is the weakest of these at 65%. I positioned the antenna to maximize these but as a result lost 29-1, 29-2 (FOX). We don't watch FOX anyway. The signal is going to be split with another TV in the house and after adding an amp we'll see if there is a difference with 29-1,2.

So anybody living along Hwy 5, try out the stealth hawk, it pulls in Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo no problem if it is high enough. Great little antenna! I have it set up with mythtv on an old computer and just making an HTPC with a nice custom box in the next couple weeks.

Hi Shabaaz,

I'm near you and I am getting all Canadian and US channels pretty much available except for ION reliably. ION comes in during the late spring to mid fall but starting to lose its luster now that it is getting cold.

My setup is a CM 4221HD with a CM7777 preamp. Attic mount for the wife friendly factor. I required the extra preamp due to high loss being inside instead of outside.

My antenna was aimed more at Buffalo and receiving Hamilton and Toronto from the sides. Signal was strong enough for those.

Hi,
I've just moved to Oakville and am new to OTA. (moving finally gave a chance to ditch cable).
What type of reception are people getting in the Dundas and Third Line area?
I am trying to use an indoor antenna and am not sure if I should go external.

Thanks,
Shabaaz

Anyone else have trouble this week due to the heavy fog?

There was one evening all the Buffalo stations dropped off to nothing, even WNED which I can usually (and literally) get with a paper clip. Wow, the fog does a great job at cutting off RF signals.

Darrell

Burlington, Walkers Line, half way between Hwy 5 and Upper Middle.
Just setup CM4221HD (plastic removed, balun reversed, didn't cut to 20"), CM7777, attic install in townhome. LOS is less than ideal since path goes thru rows of townhomes. Decent results (I think), wife is happy enough for now anyways.

2-1: 55
4-1: 62
5-1: 51
7-1: 81
9-1: 65
11-1: 90
17-1: 72
19-1: 50
23-1: 75
26-1: 67
29-1: 71
35-1: 69
36-1: 84
40-1: 54
41.1: 60
42.1: 60
47-1: 0-50 (choppy)
57-1: 55