Well first I'd see if it works before actually replacing the antenna. You might be lucky. If it works well for you, good. If not, here's why.

That antenna was made by a company whose name I can't even say because it will be censored :P

If you want to read about it, click this:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=828359&postcount=1

Alot of people here have concluded their stuff is junk. :(

But the antenna I would recommend would either be a Channel Master 4221HD, which you can hack afterwards for better results if needed, click here for details:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104837

You can get them at Sayal Electronics on Dixie/Matheson in Mississauga, or Save and Replay.


You can also find a decent clone version (EagleStar 53-6305) that works almost as well from my experience.
http://www.eaglestarpro.com/detail.php?groupID=9&categoryID=53-6&productID=53-6305

I'd go for the 4221 first though, the eaglestar clone if you REALLY want to be cheap :P

You have a height advantage over me, seeing as you're on higher ground just to the north of me, plus your tower is 10 feet taller. You should have no problem then pointing the antenna 130-140 degrees from North to get all the channels you need with your 7777 preamp.

Basically aim your antenna roughly between the two smokestacks (the big and little one) of Petro Canada to the southeast, and tweak a little if needed.

Good luck, let us know how everything goes!

Hi Everyone,

New to these forums. I'm hoping someone can offer some advice. This is my detailed situation - excuse the long post :)

I currently have 2 attic mounted CM-4221's combined with a standard cheap-o splitter. The antennas face Buffalo and Toronto respectively. From around Jan 2008 through to about October of 2009 things have worked well. I would get all channels (including WUTV) without any drop outs.

Right around November (I think) things just fell apart. I'm using computer tuners (Hauppauge 2250's) to receive my signals and its just been constant drop-outs. In the last week or two, things have improved somewhat with the drop outs being less frequent and on less channels.

I realize outdoor tower / roof mounts would be better, but its just not going to be option. Last winter I had no issues (even with all the snow on the roof). This year the roof has been relatively clean, with almost no snow build up or ice. I did however replace my roof shingles to a black (they where light green) which may have different reflective or absorbing properties. I did this in June (2009) and didn't notice any issues with my reception at that time.

The other thing that may have caused my issue is the fact that the antennas are on tripods and could have moved. I installed a ridge vent and supposedly the air flow can really increase. Thus slightly budging the antenna(s).

My proposed solution:

1) Install a CM-7777 preamp.

Reason: Drop outs or not, my home is 2 storey. I only have wiring going into the master bedroom where my media centre PC lives. The wiring is about 15' of RG-6. The problem is when I run it to my distribution point in the basement (4-way splitter) I get pretty much no signal going to my other TV's.

2) A distribution amp in my attic did not fix the situation so I'm moving the distribution amp to my basement right before the 4 way splitter.

3) Replace the cheap 2-way radioshack splitter with a Wineguard CC-7870 Antenna Coupler (In the attic on the two antennas)

4) Re-adjust the antennas and secure them in place so they can not move.

My questions:

1) Do I need 1 CM7777 preamp or two?

2) If I need only 1 preamp do I put the preamp part after the Winegard antenna coupler or before? If before on which antenna?

3) I will have a two-way splitter fairly close to the antenna sending 1 line down to my basement for further distrubtion (about 50'-70' of cable to the splitter then an average of 50' runs from there) and one to my media centre which gets an additional two way splitter after about 10' of cable away. I'm concerned I may overload the 2 tuners considering there is 2 splits and 10' of cable.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc723b858799e93

A better solution. Ditch the other 4221 and put the other one outside (roof or tower).... :P

I've personally found attics very finnicky. Our old analogue OTA setup was attic, and I had noisy TORONTO channels!

First, I'm currently a BEV subscriber and would like to stop paying all together, so...any OTA I setup has to be rock solid and not drop out if I can convince my wife to go along with this. Second, looks are important so smaller is better in this case, assuming my first point can be upheld.

My roof is too steep for my liking and I can't imagine calling an installation crew each time I need to tweek the setup so I think I'll be mounting some 10' EMT to the brick wall of my house just under the eave, not ideal but workable. From here, Buffalo is 77 miles and Toronto is 22 miles.

From reading here, it would seem that some prefer a 4228 for Buffalo reception and a 4221 for Toronto - can I put these on the same mast? I know the FAQ suggests no, but it would appear some people have done this. If you have, what distance are the antenna's apart (25"?).
Given that i would rather have the physical size of 2x 4221 (vs a 4228 & a 4221), would my reception of Buffalo stations be solid with a 4221 + preamp? The antenna chart would seem to indicate this, but I'd like to know other's opinions, specifically those that switched from a 4221 to a 4228, did you have a preamp on the 4221 you took out?

I don't see the DB4 or DB8 on the antenna chart - how do they compare to the 4221 and 4228?

Is a rotor required/suggested for the Buffalo stations if a 4228 is installed due to the narrow bandwidth? Is it worth it to have one just for occasional tweeking?

Over the next couple of years, will I need to pick up VHF/HI? I could not tell from TVFool if I would need to pick up VHF/HI anytime soon and if I do, what antenna I need. (no 14' Winegard please).


Steve.

Try one 4bay. You will be amazed. 4bays might have a little less gain, but a wider recieving bandwidth, so you might be luck to catch Buffalo and Toronto on one antenna. It might just save you enough money to go buy yourself some coffee :)

A better solution. Ditch the other 4221 and put the other one outside (roof or tower).... :P

I've personally found attics very finnicky. Our old analogue OTA setup was attic, and I had noisy TORONTO channels!

Although I'd love to roof mount the antenna, like I said it's simply not an option. Besides after enjoying 18 months of rock solid picture without a preamp and only 10-mins of initial positioning I'm inclined to believe some extra gear and tweaking will solve my current issues.

My main concern is how to hook-up the Pre-amp with the dual antenna scenario and at the same time avoid overloading the first split feed to my nearby Mediacentre tuners.

Hi Oakville Guy,

I think the CM7777 should have enough juice to feed all your receivers. You would best put it right after the coupler/reverse splitter so that both signals get boosted. The power source can be anywhere down the line but make sure if you have a splitter it has the ability to do a DC passthrough. Radioshack has decent splitters that do that.

If you find that the Toronto stations are overloaded then perhaps place the amp on the buffalo antenna. But in your area you should be fine.

I'm in pretty much the same boat as jgconnor -- right now I have a crappy little UHF/VHF antenna in my attic I picked up at Sayal a couple of years ago, and while it gets a few channels I'm interested in dropping my BellTV when the weather gets a little more conducive to putting up an antenna or two.

Here's my question for now: do those 4221HD models pick up the lower channels? The literature seems to suggest that they're only for UHF, i.e. channel 14 and up, and yet I see people getting results with them all the way down to channel 2. Am I missing something?

do those 4221HD models pick up the lower channels?The CM4221HD is designed for UHF but actually is not bad for strong VHF-HI stations, so as some of the Toronto and Hamilton DTV stations revert to the VHF-HI channels now used by their analogue transmitters it will still pick them up well in South Burlington. If not, at that time you could install a good VHF-HI antenna and combine it with your existing antenna(s). VHF-LO channels are disappearing soon so they don't matter.

Hi SCRawl,

Right now I have two hacked 4221HDs on a 10' EMT mast bolted to the front of my garden shed, total height about 17'. This would be the height I would have if the antennas were in my bungalow's attic.
I haven't properly peaked either of them (due to weather) but I consistently get PBS, CW, ABC, and CBS.
NBC comes and goes and I'm not currently aimed properly at Fox, but I know I can get it.
I have picked up WNYO, but it's on the edge so I don't count on it.

Toronto is a bit more of a challenge for me as the stations are apparently not broadcasting at full strength and my antenna is aimed into a bunch of tree trunks! But I get CBC and CTV consistently. Actually I'd have to try hard to NOT get CBC, it's very strong.
Global and OMNI are available but I have to do a bit more playing to get them.

As Stampeder mentioned, I'm not too worried about the VHF-HI channels as I do pick up the low analogue channels and I believe that CTV will be lowest, on channel 9, after the analogue shutdown. We should be close enough to Toronto to pick this up. If not, a single channel VHF antenna could be added but I wouldn't even think about that until after Aug 2011.

As soon as the weather gets better, I'm going to move the antennas to a gable mount on my house which should get me a total height of about 26' feet. I'm confident that this is going to work for me.

You should post your tvfool results and I can comment on the differences between yours and mine.
Someone recently posted one from Oakville with Noise margins considerably higher (i.e. better) than mine so you don't have to move too far to get different results!

Here are the results after an update to my 25+ year old system, after adding a 7777 pre-amp, new Channel Master rotor, replacing the old wiring with RG6, and replacing the old badly oxidized antenna, with a new Winegard 8200.

The old results are followed by the new results for each channel.

2.1-59% 2.1-98%
2.2-59% 2.2-98%
2.3-59% 2.3-98%
3- not available 3-not available, very clear
4.1- 67% 4.1-95%
5- not available 5-not available, very clear
5.1-95% 5.1-98%
6- not available 6-not available, very clear
7.1-67% 7.1-98%
9- not available 9-not available, somewhat clear
9.1- 87% 9.1-89%
11- not available 11-not available, very clear
11.1 no signal 11.1-95%
12- not available 12-not available, no picture
13- not available 13-not available, very clear
15 -no signal 15-not available, no picture
17.1-78% 17.1-95%
17.2-78% 17.2-95%
17.3-78% 17.3-95%
19-not available 19-not available, very clear
21-no signal 21-not available, no picture
23.1-89% 23.-95%
25-not available 25-not available, very clear
25.1-84% 25.1-95%
29.1-no signal 29.1-95%
29.2-no signal 29.2-95%
31-no signal 31-no picture
36-not available 36-not available, very clear
36.1-no signal 36.1-95%
41-not available 41-not available, very clear
41.1-62% 41.1-95%
43.8-no signal, but 78% 43.8-92% but no picture...???
43.9-no signal, but 78% 43.9-92% but no picture...???
44.1-89% 44.1-98%
47-not available 47-not available, very clear
48-not available 48-not available, poor picture
49.1-no signal 49.1-95%
49.2-no signal 49.2-95%
52-not available 52-not available, somewhat clear
54-not available 54-not available, poor picture
55-not available 55-not available, somewhat clear
57-not available 57-not available, very clear
57.1-70% 57.1-78%
61-not available 61-not available, very clear
64.1-78% 64.1-98%
66.1-62% 66.1-92%
69-not available 69-not available, very clear

As you can tell by the numbers, there is a vast improvement! :cool:

Bye-bye Shaw Direct!:)

Here's my tvfool chart:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc723fd80381220

I'm not sure yet how high the antennae will be, but I put 15 feet in the dialog box. Looks hopeful.

SCRawl,

I'd say your TVFool results are promising indeed.
Your Noise Margins are better than mine on all the Buffalo stations.
So unless you have some bad obstructions you should be in good shape.

Based on my results you should do well with the 4221HD.
If I were you, I'd get one and try it. You might still need to budget for a pre-amp, but I'd certainly try it without first.

I've been lurking in these forums for a bit reviewing all the advice. Got an LCD HDTV in boxing day sales (btw, pricematched with bestbuy.ca over the phone when they wouldn't do it in the store) so decided to take the plunge with OTA.

I went with two ganged CM4221HD's (followed the ganging rules), one pointed toward the CN Tower and one pointed toward Buffalo. No preamp, just a good splitter combining the signals. I am near Third Line and Lakeshore in Oakville. I'm receiving the following channels with strong signals:
Displayed Actual Call Sign Network City
Channel Channel
--------------------------------------------------
2.1 33.1 WGRZ-DT NBC Buffalo, NY
2.2 33.2 WGRZ-DT UNSPO Buffalo, NY
2.3 33.3 WGRZ-DT RTV Buffalo, NY
4.1 39.1 WIVB-DT CBS Buffalo, NY
5.1 20.1 CBLT-DT CBC Toronto, ON
7.1 38.1 WKBW-DT ABC Buffalo, NY
9.1 40.1 CFTO-DT CTV Toronto, ON
11.1 18.1 CHCH-DT E! Hamilton, ON
17.1 43.1 WNED-DT PBS-HD Buffalo, NY
17.2 43.2 WNED-DT PBS-SD Buffalo, NY
17.3 43.3 WNED-DT THINK Buffalo, NY
19 19 TVO Analog Toronto, ON
23.1 32.1 WNLO-DT CW Buffalo, NY
25.1 24.1 CBLFT-DT SRC Toronto, ON
29.1 14.1 WUTV-DT FOX-HD Buffalo, NY
29.2 14.2 WUTV-DT FOX-SD Buffalo, NY
36.1 35.1 CITS-DT CTS Hamilton, ON
41.1 65.1 CIII-DT GLOBAL Toronto, ON
44.1 44.1 CJMT-DT OMNI2 Toronto, ON
49.1 49.1 WNYO-DT My-HD Buffalo, NY
49.2 49.2 WNYO-DT My-SD Buffalo, NY
57.1 53.1 CITY-DT CITY Toronto, ON
64.1 64.1 CFMT-DT OMNI1 Toronto, ON
66.1 66.1 CKXT-DT SUN Toronto, ON
I have not hacked the antenna. If I change the orientation slightly of the Buffalo antenna, I can get 26.1 and 26.2, and I lose MyTV (49.1 and 49.2), but since I'm not interested in the content on 26.1 I've left it as above. I may fiddle a bit if it gets warmer to try to bring in the ION channels. I've included links to the pictures of the install below. I will clean up the wiring a bit when it gets warmer, my fingers were freezing. And I know they should be farther apart, but again, the freezing thing was an issue.

The history is I had a very old antenna already when we moved in and we never used it. Around five years ago a guy came around and said he'd remove it. At the time I thought for a bit, and told him to just remove the top, as I still was using the tower to climb on the roof occasionally. Very happy now that I did that. I guess if I had left it alone this would have been higher, but the results are pretty good where it is.

Would the hacks of removing the plastic caps help bring in ION? I guess I will fiddle and find out. Also, should we expect to see extra channels once the 2011 deadline comes around for Canada like they have on some channels from the US (WGRZ)? What would be the downside to CBC, CTV, or CITY broadcasting their news channels, say on 5.2, 9.2, or 57.2? Would there be CRTC regs against this or are they free to do whatever they want? Just wondering.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/50FUcze8GvwXgL3qtbja8g?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/8loyCiRVlIKvBe1HUTbI9g?feat=directlink

Great work you've done, drgrittani, and I would recommend the CM4221HD antenna hacks when it gets warmer so that you'll have a better chance at ION.
(http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/member.php?u=65831)

Probably a pre-amp, and maybe a bigger antenna for ION.

Hi drgrittani,

Great results. It's interesting that you ganged your antennas on the same horizontal plane. I've got mine on a single mast, therefore ganged vertically.

I haven't had the opportunity to move my antennas to the roof, so I'm not getting the full range of channels that you are.

Can you post your tvfool results? I'd like to see them as you are about 6-8 kms east of me.

Here's my tvfool report link http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d27eed2a47cc843

No real science to the install, just working with what I had. I mounted one on the existing antenna tower, and added a j-pole to mount the other.

drgrittani,

That's cool and it's working for you.

My tv fool is similar. We trade a few +/-s but overall similar.

I can't wait to get mine on the roof.
I just need one +1 degree afternoon, just one! :)

Hi all,

I am brand new to OTA and picking up all the new high def channels free of charge. I have a CM4228 antenna facing south toward the CN Tower. I am picking up all the local channels CTV, Global, Omni 1, Omni 2, CHCH, CBC, CityTV (analog) and a channel out of Buffalo called The CW. I am very pleased with the high def quality of most of these channels, however, I was hoping to pick up NBC and more Buffalo stations. Should I be pointing my antenna more toward Buffalo? If I do, will I lose my Toronto reception?