Got it. So you do have a chance at 50% strengths for 4.1,7.1,17.x,23.1,26.x

That's not so bad, so a 4228 may be what you'll need to get reliable signals from Buffalo.

You'd have to choose between the 4221 [wider beamwidth] and the 4228 [narrower beamwidth]. There isn't a big difference exept the beam width may help prevent Hamilton from overloading a preamped antenna. At your distance from Hamilton, I don't think overload will be a problem anyways, so I would experiment a little bit before buying a 4228. Use a single 4221 with a preamp for Toronto and then try the same for Buffalo and then decide if you need a 4228 or a 4221 for Buffalo.

Thanks ota_canuck and goforit. I'm going to try the 4221 and see what I can get. Will post my results here.

Hey Guys!

I'm new to this so bare with me. I didn't know anything about all of this until a friend brought it up to me last week so I thought I'd try it out.

I basically need to figure out what I need to buy in the next 2 days as I'll be putting it up on Saturday(when I have help) and hate the thought of spending a few hundred dollars on equipment that won't work!!

I have an old tower but it only goes up to our eaves as we cut off the top this summer when we re-shingled the house(sucks I know). I do however have 1 or 2 "mid" sections and the "top mount" section from another house that I can use! I'm guessing I can get up around 25ft.

I definitely need the antenna and also maybe a rotor, amp, etc etc.
I'll give you a link to my tv fool results below. The problem I have is that I'm half way up a hill that is on our south side and we're fairly low to begin with.

It's been a while(10 yrs.) since we started using satelite but I somewhat remember what we were pulling in before on the old antenna. The rotor was fried, there was some sort ofamplifier, and the wire was over 15yrs. old(crap)
but at the end, we were getting channels: 2 and 4 not so great, 7 and 29 a lot better, 5, 9( our best), 41 perfectly, and 3,11,17,19, etc.

I used my friends top the other day which I think was made for the city but only managed to pull in 23.1,25.1, and 44.1 digitally but the first two were sketchy at best. The normal channels outside of 41 were garbage too!

Here's my results@25 ft.(a guess):
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc572b1acf13444

If I can't pull in the T.O. stations plus at least a few of the American Networks(SuperBowl would be a +), I'd rather stick with the Satelite!!!

I'd really appreciate any advice you all can give me and if it is worth my time, I'll let you know of the results barring any unforeseen 25 ft. falls!!!

Thanks, Green

Hi Green,
From looking at your TV Fool results, it doesn't look promissing. It says you are in Inglewood? I tried putting in 40ft instead of 25 and the results look a lot better.
Anyway, from your location, you'd need deep fringe equipment to get buffalo. I'd suggest a DB-8 antenna and a CM7777 pre-amp to start. And as much height as possible. You'd have to have no obstructions in the way. But be prepared to add a second identical antenna, just in-case.
Good Luck.

echoing Tom, your TV Fool report doesn't look good for US stations- you'll have to pull out the heavy hitters- DB-8, 91XG, or Grey-Hoverman (DIY) antenna, plus CM7777, Kitztech, of RC pre-amps, RG-6 coax as a minimum, and yes a high tower- you can get'em up to 68'- but it's worth it. See also the deep fringe set-up in the FAQ section.

I'm thinking maybe I better hold off for a while then. If I stand on the very peak of our roof, My eye level at over 6ft. tall is still roughly 5 to 10 feet below the bottom of my neighbours house so to get over the trees up there much less his house would be no small task. I do aprecciate the feed back though. Thanks for everything:)

Hi,
I am buy a Channel Master 9521A and putting it up to a 40' tower I have. How would I setup this Rotor and make it work right?

I will up a ANT-7288 Antenna on it. So I would like to have the correct postions pointed to the channels everytime. How would I do this? Will I be able to pickup Erie and Rochester?

Do I need a CM7777 preamp for this? I bought a ANT-1005 HDTV Digital Antenna High Gain Preamplifier and when I put it on I lost all the Channels. WHY, and will this also happen with the CM 7777 pre-amp? What should I set the CM 7777 pre-amp on, both or UHF alone to make it work right?

Ted+:confused:

Howdy!

Personally I'd save yourself the trouble.

What kind of antenna is that anyways? Is it a 4-bay reflector mesh UHF antenna like the CM4221?

If so, I can tell you you're literally a stones throw away from where I am, and at 40feet, and a simple 4-bay antenna (even a clone) can pick up everything no rotor required. I have mine at 30 feet and it works almost like a charm.

Aim between 130-140, grab a good CM7777 preamp instead if your RG6 coax run is over 100 feet.

That should do the trick.

Ted, follow the step-by-step instructions in Post #10 of the OTA FAQ and then we can give you some excellent advice after you post the results from it here.

As I said, why would you even need a rotor? With your height and antenna, I very much doubt you should waste your money on a rotor. I know 8-bays are more directional, but judging by the model, couldn't you rotate one side towards TO, and the other to BUF?

If not just bag a cheap 4221 or even a clone (4-bay).

But of course, read Stampeder's link. It should help you.

I say this not to sound mean or stubborn, but from experience. You should save the money for something else, or a 7777 preamp if you need one. A preamp is only required if your coaxial cable run is long (to prevent signal line loss). If you have a short run of good RG-6 coax, you probably won't need one.

If you were in Hamilton or Niagara, you would need a rotor, but definitely not Oakville.

You won't be getting Erie or Rochester unless it's really warm, or atmospheric conditions permit. There's no value anyways, because they are the same channels as the Buffalo ones, with different newscasts.

Hope that helps. :)

Hi folks,

Here are my latest results from south Burlington.

I've installed a second CM4221HD on my mast, starting at about three feet below the original antenna.

I've got two identical RG6 cables running from each antenna to a splitter. The splitter output is connected to a CM7777 pre-amp located between the two antennas.

I'm still getting pretty stable results from Buffalo (although Fox is currently breaking up a bit), but I'm having heck of a time locking all the CN tower stations that I should have no problem getting.

CBC comes through very strong (also did with 1 antenna).
But I can't seem to get Global and CTV at the same time.
If I move the antennas closer together I get CTV but not Global.
Move them apart; Global but not CTV.

Now I will admit that the Buffalo antenna is fully hacked:
i.e. clips removed, balun flipped, feed lines flattened and reflectors shortened by 2 inches each side.
The Toronto antenna has had the clips removed and the balun flipped, but the balun feed lines are not flattened, so the balun does stick out more and the line length is therefore longer. I have not shortened the reflectors on this antenna.

So the antennas are similar but not *exactly* the same.
Is this enough to cause my issues or is there something else that I should try?

I have no problem finishing the hacks on antenna 2, but wanted to get the wisdom of the digital home community before doing so.

BTW, TVO (analogue) comes though reasonably well, so I assume that the antennas are in phase.

TVO's analog is really strong, so is not the best judge in determining if your antenna is in phase or not. Your analogs and CBC digital can be fine, but the slight variations can be causing havoc on the weak Canadian digitals (and FOX perhaps for that matter seeing as it's transmitter is very directional and weak north of the lake).

Preferably when combining antennas, the two have to be identical, no? I have no experience doing this, so you should look at the FAQ section under Stampeder's signature, and search for the post that tells you how to combine antennas properly.

The way you hook them up with coxial cable (splitters, etc) also matters. The line length of ant-1 and ant-2 to where the two meet should be exactly the same.

Best of luck. :)

Thanks little-infinity,

I've hacked the second 4221HD to match the first, so I'm confident that I've got two identical antennas connected with equal lengths of coax.

I've got it remounted but didn't have any time to really position it due to yesterday's rain.

I know the Toronto antenna is working as I can't get CTV or CITY without it, but still no Global nor a strong lock on the OMNIs.

I'll try to do some more testing next weekend, but I wonder if these channels are currently just too weak for my current setup.

It's kind of ironic that I'm having more trouble locking the Toronto stations over the ones from Buffalo. All the U.S. stations are strong and consistent except for WGRZ and WNYO, althogh WNYO usually comes in the evening. It's on the edge of my expected results so that's ok. WGRZ should be easy, according to TVFool, but my experience is the opposite.

This spring, when I can install on the roof, I'll get another 8 feet so maybe that will be enough.

Yeah if there's anything blocking your line-of-sight, that can be bad. Especially if it's your house.

Issues with WGRZ are expected for most of us in the winter time. I know I personally have issues around this time of the year, but I know why and I'm going to fix that in the spring. Peak your antenna for WGRZ, you might find tilting the antenna upwards a few degrees might help if your TVFool shows 1 or 2edge. You should post that for us by the way ;)

Get a good/decent pre-amp and install it beside your antenna, and make sure your coaxial cable is graded RG-6 or RG-11 (even better). Keep the run as short as possible, and again make sure there isn't alot of obstructions, or metal nearby as that can interfere with the signal.

You should do some more research on positioning those antennas, and look into the quality of your splitter. That can matter alot. It's not as simple as hooking two antennas to a splitter in reverse. Sometimes there are complications.

Have you tried using just one 4221 and carefully aiming it to see if you can grab either the TORs or BUFs off the side lobes? In Burlington, TOR and BUF are less farther apart than in Oakville or Mississauga, and you might get lucky if you aim it very carefully.

And I wouldn't worry too much about Global or OMNIs. They are weak because they are pre-transitional. They will be using full-power come 2011.

Best of luck this spring, the warmer weather should help. :)

Yeah if there's anything blocking your line-of-sight, that can be bad. Especially if it's your house.

In my case its some big trees to the north east. I'm going to have to play around with that.

Issues with WGRZ are expected for most of us in the winter time. I know I personally have issues around this time of the year, but I know why and I'm going to fix that in the spring. Peak your antenna for WGRZ, you might find tilting the antenna upwards a few degrees might help if your TVFool shows 1 or 2edge. You should post that for us by the way

I seem to get WGRZ from time to time, so I'll have to play around with that too.
Here's my TVFool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc7237aa78496ab

Get a good/decent pre-amp and install it beside your antenna, and make sure your coaxial cable is graded RG-6 or RG-11 (even better). Keep the run as short as possible, and again make sure there isn't alot of obstructions, or metal nearby as that can interfere with the signal.

I've got at CM7777 with fresh, good quality RG-6 from Save and Replay, so I'm good there.

You should do some more research on positioning those antennas, and look into the quality of your splitter. That can matter alot. It's not as simple as hooking two antennas to a splitter in reverse. Sometimes there are complications.

The splitter was the cable company's so I assume it's a reasonable quality.
I'm getting solid signals from all the other Buffalo stations, so I'm assuming that my reception issues are primarily geographical and not hardware.

Have you tried using just one 4221 and carefully aiming it to see if you can grab either the TORs or BUFs off the side lobes? In Burlington, TOR and BUF are less farther apart than in Oakville or Mississauga, and you might get lucky if you aim it very carefully.

I have. I only get CBC with a single antenna and I have a very narrow window to get FOX, so I'm convinced that I need two antennas.

And I wouldn't worry too much about Global or OMNIs. They are weak because they are pre-transitional. They will be using full-power come 2011.

Yeah, it's a bit frustrating though. Typical that Canada is 2 years behind the U.S. I'm expecting that August 2011 will be delayed as well.

Again I can lock Global/Omni OR CTV/City, but I haven't gotten all of them at the same time. I haven't had any real time to try peaking since I completed all the 4221HD hacks, so I'll have another go, hopefully this weekend.

Best of luck this spring, the warmer weather should help.
It will certainly make working with metal outside more pleasant! :)

Thanks for all your comments.

Woah woah you're losing me :(

I live in your area (closer to the lake though) and I can report I can pull in Toronto, Buffalo, and Hamilton with little-to-no problem.

The brand of your antenna and preamp are very questionable, and I wouldn't trust them. I doubt it would happen with a CM7777. Don't be fooled by all that "high-gain" stuff. It's probably gain overload that's causing you to lose all those channels, or worse yet, a poorly built "preamplifier" is actually amplifying more signal noise than actual signal (very bad).

The 7777 should work wonders for you, especially in this area. You should also look into buying yourself a more reputable model of antenna, such as the CM4221 (which is half the size of your current antenna and should work perfectly aimed between 130-140 degrees). Even an EagleStar clone would probably work.

Try the 7777 on your current antenna (pointed 135 degrees), and if that does not work methinks you might need to get a better antenna (they go quite cheaply too) ;)

Best of luck.

Ted, your posts are now all together in Post #707.

See the replies to you from me and little-infinity in Posts #708, 709, 710, and 716. Your answers to those posts are very important.

Help us to help you. :)

Hi,
I did buy a ANT-7288 8 Bay Antenna and a rotor CM9521A I do have some channels that come in and then later on leave and I can't get them. Now if I use the preamp CM-7777 would that make it much better for pulling in the channels and yes I do have approx. 100' of RG-6 cable to make it to the T.V. It's an HDTV DTV Plazma from L.G. that I bought several years ago. I would like to know it I have this Preamp CM-7777 would it all work? This I would like to know bofore I set it all up and spend the money for the Preamp. What do I choose Both or just UHF and do I turn the FM trap off? Please let me know for all of my Questions and I do Thank you in Advance.
Ted+ :confused:

The FM trap is on by default. You don't have to worry at all.

There's two inputs, and one output.

Basically stick your antenna into the UHF combined (seeing as all of the digital channels in the area are on UHF, plus this also works for VHF).

The other input is for VHF only antennas, and typically for DTV you don't use a VHF only antenna.

Output is output (to TV). You also need a power injector between the preamp and TV (that's why it says power).

Pretty straightforward.

I cannot guarantee it will work, but with that much coax, you will definitely need some sort of preamp to compensate for line loss.

Just try it out (hook the 7777 beside the antenna), and put the power injector (that is included) afterwards. Plug it in and see what you get.

If it's still giving you problems, most likely your signal is too strong (I doubt it though), your antenna needs re-aim, or your antenna is just plain crap and should be replaced with a better-quality one.

You can always return it if it does not work to your satisfaction. Double check with the retailer though.

My advice is if you're shelling $100 for the 7777, go grab yourself a decent antenna with it. I did a little more research and let me tell you, that antenna sounds pretty shabby and isn't highly regarded here.

That is the best answer I can give to you.
Try it out, and come back if there's any issues.

Best of luck. :)

Hi,
What Antenna do you recommend me to get? This one is a 8 Bay Antenna ANT-7288 and they say it's a really good one. Please do let me know. tank you.
Ted+:confused: