Buffalo's NBC/CBS/ABC stations are all in fact on UHF channels - 33/39/38 respectively. It is the station's PSIP tables that make them look as if they are channels 2/4/7. A UHF only antenna is perfect for receiving these.

Thanks for clearing that up; makes sense now.

2 and 7 have come and gone during the day. Maybe another 5 or 10° southward turn will increase the stability.

I can only assume that there are 'recommended' 3rd party meters that assist with signal strength measurements for optimising orientation?

You can read about channel remapping in the OTA FAQ.

I am not able to turn the antenna.I was talking about manually turning your antenna while way up there on the tower - is that possible or is the rotor seized? As I said before, I really think you should try to aim that antenna and test it first before you go buying anything new. ;)

Gave that a try this morning as you suggested, but unfortunately was not able to turn it. After more than 15 years of not using it, I'd bet it is indeed seized solid.

Being 45 feet up in the air on a tower, was a lot higher than I remember from 15 or 20 years ago too! :o

From looking at the antenna's position, and comparing it with Google maps, I believe it is pointed right at Toronto. This likely explains why those stations are giving me such a good strong signal.

Open to further suggestions. ;)

Unseizing a rotor while up high on a tower during the winter... what could possibly go wrong? :eek: :D

It is a shame that the antenna cannot be re-aimed because it is obviously a good performer for your needs. Maybe swapping rotors is the answer, maybe just replacing the rotor with a metal sleeve to hold the antenna pole is the answer.

Made a second trip up the tower, hoping to be able to loosen any of U shaped clamps, to allow the antenna to turn.

After more than 20 years, they are rusted pretty badly, and I am unable to turn the nuts with a wrench. If I force it, I'm sure they would break off and the antenna could fall... :(

I think I am going to replace the rotor with a new one, as well as the old signal wire with RG6, and probably add a CM 7777 preamp too. I can always change the antenna itself at a later date, if I am not able to receive all the channels in the area.;)

Does this sound like a good plan?

Thanks!

Update in Burlington.

I've semi-permanently mounted a single 4221HD on a mast on my shed, giving me a total height of about 18' above ground.
I'm near the lake, so actual altitude isn't that high.

Using a 7777 pre-amp and about 100' of dubious quality coax, I'm getting everything from Buffalo that I should except for WGRZ-NBC.

Aiming for Fox, I'm getting CBC and CITY from Toronto, but nothing else.

So I'm planning to pick up a second 4221HD and put it on the same mast about three feet lower to get the remaining CN Tower stations.

My question is, is it best to join the two antennas with 300ohm twin lead into a single new balun or should I keep the existing baluns and join them with a (reverse) splitter?

It seems like the twin lead would be a lower loss solution as the splitter, apparently, will cost me about 3dbs which I don't think I can afford to lose.

Hmm...

You can try to add some more height to your antenna first and see if with careful aiming, you can get away with using the one 4221 to get everything. Make sure your 7777 is close to the antenna (preferably right after it), or else you can be drowning some stations under amplified noise. As well, 100 feet of "dubious quality" can be costing you quite a significant amount of dB. I'd also check if your cable is RG-59. If it is, go for a lower-loss RG6 cable. 100ft should only cost 10-15 bucks.

It's a little harder to grab the Toronto stations from your area, but you're a little closer to Buffalo than I am, so try aiming away from BUF a bit and see if you can pick up more strength from Toronto. (near oakville, I aim about halfway between Buffalo and Batavia and can grab Toronto off the side ofmy 4221 clone 30 feet up). I'd try say 90-100 degrees.

Sorry I didn't really offer an answer to your actual question, but I'd do some tweaking before stacking, it could introduce a whole set of new issues if not done right.

(I think stacking/ganging two 4bays antennas could make the whole thing more directional too so it wouldn't help in your case, not sure, someone correct me if i'm wrong...)

Best of luck :)

Thanks little-infinity,

I hope to get a bit more height this spring when I move the antenna(s) to the roof of my house. I'm just not going to do it on a slippery roof in January!

My 7777 is right below the antenna so no change there.
The cable is marked RG6 but it seems a bit thinner than other cable that I've used, that's why I call it suspect. It might be fine! But it is too long. I'll shorten when I get a bit of time to string it up properly.

I have picked up NBC in earlier tests, I just didn't notice that this time it was missing as I was focusing on getting Fox.

I don't think that there's much chance of getting solid signals on both Buffalo and Toronto. If I more the antenna too far to the north, I loose Fox. I've actually got a pretty small range where I can get Fox. And none of that range is particularly good for Toronto. They really are about 90 degrees apart, for me.

So I really think I'm going to need two antennas. I'm just looking for some feedback on how I should connect the two, with twin-lead or coax.

I really pleased with my results so far and am really looking forward to the call to Cogeco that tells them that I don't need them anymore (for TV, anyway)!

Made a second trip up the tower, hoping to be able to loosen any of U shaped clamps, to allow the antenna to turn.

After more than 20 years, they are rusted pretty badly, and I am unable to turn the nuts with a wrench. If I force it, I'm sure they would break off and the antenna could fall... :(

I think I am going to replace the rotor with a new one, as well as the old signal wire with RG6, and probably add a CM 7777 preamp too. I can always change the antenna itself at a later date, if I am not able to receive all the channels in the area.;)

Does this sound like a good plan?

Thanks!
That sounds good- no need for a new antenna, your current one looks fine.

Cheers!

is it best to join the two antennas with 300ohm twin lead into a single new balun or should I keep the existing baluns and join them with a (reverse) splitter?Nope, the problem is that you will be causing impedance problems by combining them that way. Testing shows that individual baluns into a joiner/reversed splitter is best. :)

Thanks stampeder.

That's good news, actually. I suspect that it will be easier to use the existing baluns with coax than futzing around trying to tie copper twin-lead into aluminum rails.

I'll be off to Save and Replay (again!) this week to pick up another 4221HD!

i wouldn't change your antenna,i'm using a combo similar to yours and receive 29 digital channels in solidly,i'm using rg6 and a 7778 split to 3 tvs.

Was that meant for 300sflyer, southgate? He's in Acton, ON - are you nearby?

Hi all,

For the past couple of years I have been getting good digital OTA results from Toronto with a silver sensor (from the 10th floor of an apartment building in downtown Hamilton, facing Toronto). However, I've moved to Carlisle recently, and the silver sensor isn't getting me much of anything.

I figure that since I'm going to have to invest in a new antenna, I may as well see what I can do about picking up more than just the Toronto stations.

Here is my TVFool analysis: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3dc5720c1f852c6d

I gather from it that I will have to gang two antennae together (I'd rather that than a rotor). I would probably be mounting them on the roof (of a bungalow).

Based on the Antenna Chart and the TVFool analysis, I expect that I should be able to get acceptable results with either a CM4221 or CM4228 pointed at Toronto. But I gather that if I'm going to gang two antennae, they should ideally be the same, so I think it really comes down to the clump of stations though Hamilton into the US to make the choice. This clump of stations spans about a 45 degree arc from my location, so that sounds like a CM4221. I'm wondering if the CM4221 will get me enough range though? Or would a CM4228 still not give me much hope of picking up some of the deeper fringe stations in that clump?

So, I think my question boils down to, any advice for getting the most stations out of that clump?

I recognize that there's no sure answer expect to try - but any advice to focus my efforts would be much appreciated! :)

@jgconner, have you tweaked your CM4221HD? Reversing the balun and removing the black plastic covers improves off axis reception:

CM4221HD Hardware Hacks For Better Performance (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104837)

I have mine on a rotator, but basically leave aimed at ION. I receive all Toronto, Buffalo, and Hamilton channels in that position.

You can gang different antennas-it's more important to have identical antennas when you are stacking. You could try a 4221HD for TO and a 4228HD for BUF. Also, your TV Fool report may not be accurate, you might need to bump up the elevation a bit, I think you got it set at the default- 10ft, but maybe it should be about 20ft? You are pretty close to TO so you could try a 4221HD and see what you get for both TO and BUF.

Your tvfool for Buffalo looks bleak. I just checked the Carlisle area on an alternate mapping service to see what is possible and it said "no stations available".
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

I'd be surprised if you will get anything more than the closest two stations 17.1 & 23.1 from Buffalo. You have a great distance and the rolling terrain of the escarpment to get past. Carlisle seems to be in a valley with respect to the Buffalo tower locations.

A 40ft antenna tower and a very long range antenna would be your best shot at getting any reliable reception from Buffalo. A 4221 should be fine for Toronto, however you may have a better chance at grabbing some US stations with a well built Hoverman antenna.

@RustyHD.

Yes I've done all three hacks (balun, covers, trim reflector).

I just picked up a second 4221HD from Save and Replay and will start some experiments with aiming it at the CN Tower and and combining the signal from the first antenna, currently aimed at Buffalo.

I'm going to do the balun and cover hack, but not trim the reflector for #2 right away.

The sharing of information on this forum has been invaluable.

@ota_canuck

Thanks for pointing me towards that mapping service!

When I typed Carlisle, ON into that one, I found out that there is a community called Carlisle in Middlesex County Ontario (I suspect this is where you were pointed). The Carlisle I'm in is within the city of Hamilton. A search of Carlisle, Hamilton, ON brings you to the correct place.