I recommend one CM4221 (or any 4bay for that matter, clones work fine IMO).

One 4221 pointed around 135-140 degrees (south-eastish) should be enough to capture all Toronto/Buffalo/Hamilton, and if you have a long coxial cable run from antenna to TV (recommended RG6, RG11 if you can find it), get a CM7777 preamp too. Put it outside on the roof, or on a tower at least 20-30 feet above the ground. Try to clear as many obstacles as you can to obtain LOS (line-of-sight) to the broadcasting towers.

I'm in Clarkson (mississauga) basically right next door to Oakville by the lake and I can pull in every channel with no dropouts with the exception of ION which is skletchy for just about everyone around the winter.

Ganging/merging two antennas has proven to be a sticky situation. I would also try and avoid sticking the antennas in the attic as multipath inside can cause some serious signal issues. Try for the roof/outside.

(or any 4bay for that matter, clones work fine IMO)You are free to do with your money whatever you want, but I do not recommend clone antennas after all the results and data we've accumulated here over the years.

MisterMe, the only right way to do something is to to it right, so stick with the CM4221HD and be glad that you did. :)

I was given a 2 directional antenna. It looks like 2-4 bays hinged. The guy that gave it to me says it is an Eaglestar. I would welcome some tips on aiming the 2 antennas. I would like to try to get the T.O channels and the major u.s. networks.

Any help is appreciated

Hi and welcome here - your Eaglestar antenna is a controversial one due to its odd design, as you can read here:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=114608

Read through this Oakville thread to see how many antennas others who are close to you are using to get Toronto and Buffalo stations.

If one antenna will work, keep the 2 parts of yours exactly in a straight line all the time. If 2 antennas are needed, take yours apart to make 2 separate antennas. Folding yours in the middle is not recommended, despite what some sales people are trying to say.

Thanks for the advice I will experiment with it to see what works best.

Oh yes by all means I agree with stampeder, get a trusted model if you can, or better yet make your own :P

It's just the model I have (53-6305) does not fold, and with it I've been able to get very good reception that closely rivals that of the 4221. I might just be lucky.

I'm thinking of putting an antenna(s) in my attic over the winter. I'm not very handy but what I think I can do is mount the antenna(s) in the attic using a j-mount, and then run coax down through the ceiling next to the attic access door. This ends up in a closet with a power receptacle. I can put an hdhomerun in the closet to connect to the antenna(s), and then I can use a homeplug AV powerline adaptor to send the signal to my router and then on to the HTPC in the basement.

For the attic antenna(s), I was thinking of buying the 2 CM4221HD's that I will eventually put outside next spring. Then I can use one to try to capture Toronto signals, and one to try to capture Buffalo/Hamilton.
If you are looking for a cheap-and-cheerful solution for the time being, why not build your own antenna? The Gray-Hooverman designs can be put together for a very few dollars and will let you try out OTA. At least, check your attic access before you buy any antenna--I don't think a 4221 would fit through my openings.

That said, an attic installation is always a compromise. Mounting above the roof line is going to be far superior.

Hello first post and need some advice. I installed a CM 7777 pre-amp and lost most of my channels, so I am wondering what I may have done wrong?

Setup Before:
1. CM4221HD Antenna - Aimed @ Toronto (CN tower, 22 miles distant) with 90 degree offset to Buffalo (80 miles distant)
2. 85 foot run of RG6 cabling to Nfusion HD reciever with ATSC input

Setup After:
Added - CM 7777 preamp on antenna mast

Results:
**Note - anything with a percentage indicated was watchable on TV without distortion. Anything with a "-" was lost after adding preamp.
Signal Strength Percentage (%) on ATSC
NO-Preamp Preamp
No Channel Station Call Sign 4221HD CM 7777
1 20001 11-1 CHCH-DT
2 20001 41-1 CIII-DT 20% 90%
3 20001 2-1 WGRZ-HD 90 -
4 20002 36-1 CTS-HD 10 -
5 20002 64-1 OMNI-1 10% 90%
6 20002 17-1 WNED-HD
7 20002 2-2 WGRZ-US 25 -
8 20002 57-1 CITY-HD 5% 90%
9 20002 66-1 CKXT-DT 10% 90%
10 20003 23-1 WNLO-H 5 -
11 20003 7-1 WKBW-HD 30 -
12 20003 29-1 WUTV-H
13 20003 25-1 CBLFT-D
14 20003 5-1 CBLT-DT 90 -
15 20003 17-2 WNED-S
16 20003 2-3 WGRZ-RT 30 -
17 20003 26-1 WNYB-S
18 20003 44-1 OMNI-2 15 -
19 20004 9-1 CFTO-HD
20 20004 29-2 WUTV-S
21 20004 26-2 WNYB-H
22 20004 17-3 WNED-T
23 20004 4-1 WIBV-HD 25 -

Also, aiming the 4221HD towards Buffalo with the preamp connected loses Toronto and Buffalo stations.

I removed the preamp and returned to the original channels recieved. I am hoping somebody may have an idea of what happened.Thanks.

Hello first post and need some advice. I installed a CM 7777 pre-amp and lost most of my channels, so I am wondering what I may have done wrong?

Setup Before:
1. CM4221HD Antenna - Aimed @ Toronto (CN tower, 22 miles distant) with 90 degree offset to Buffalo (80 miles distant)
2. 85 foot run of RG6 cabling to Nfusion HD reciever with ATSC input

Hi schnell28 and welcome!

If your are only 22 miles from the CN tower, you are almost definitely overloading the pre-amp. The CM7777 is a high gain pre-amp and as such is not intended for urban use. Try aiming the antenna more towards Buffalo (about 20 degrees away from it) and see what happens. With the two 90 degrees apart, it could be difficult to receive all stations from both locations with one antenna position, but you might be lucky.

His one 4bay aimed properly should be sufficent for all three markets.

Don't aim for the CN Tower/Toronto. Aim slightly east of Buffalo. Try 130-140 degrees. That should be enough to pick up Buffalo and Toronto/Hamilton from the side lobes.

With my (apparently somewhat inferior) 4221 EagleStar clone in Clarkson (right on the oakville/mississauga border), I can get both Toronto, Hamilton and Buffalo rocksolid at 70-80% strength (100% no breakups), except WGRZ and CITS which are around 40-50% (no breakups). Check your height too for any interference issues. Mine is hoisted 30 feet, and i'm close to the lakeshore.

WNYB and ION are sketchy but that's normal for our area and this time of year.

Thanks to little-infinity, Stampeder and PVRfan for your advice.

I ended up calling the forum sponsor who put me through to an installer. He put a CM4221HD on my roof with a j-bar (no amplification, maybe 50-60 feet of coax outside, and an unknown length inside through the wall/ceiling to an outlet and then to the TV).

It looks based on a quick test like I'm getting 23-25 digital channels from Toronto/Buffalo (no ION). The antenna is about 25 feet up, I'd say.

I'll post more details in a week or two after I get through some work deadlines - but looks good so far!

Hi everyone, just set my CM 4221 up in the attic and have a couple questions. Line of site to Buffalo is not ideal - I have a neighbour directly south of me. If I move it to the edge of the attic, I might have a clear line, but still have to test.

I pick up all the Canadian channels very clearly (CBC, CTV, City, OMNI1/2, Global, Sun, CHCH, CTS)

My question is, does anyone around Milton get both Canadian and American channels without a preamp and a 4221, or clone antenna? Also, wondering about line of sites that are less than ideal and if your antenna is roof mounted or attic or other.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

I'm at Derry and Armstrong. I have a homemade antenna (m4) in my attic, no pre-amp and no reflector. I'm able to pick up 13 stations now. I need to tweak it some more.

Try aiming your antenna straight down tremaine and brittania. You should be able to pick up the buffalo stations, once you've locked in to your buffalo stations, you can try pointing your antenna a tad east to try pick up the toronto stations. Well, I'm a newb, but that what I'm hoping for to pick up the rest of my channels.

Good luck,

Okay, relocated my antenna, still in the attic. Started pointing directly towards Buffalo (parallel to Savoline or Tremaine), scanned and picked up all the American channels, but missed CTV and City. Pointed more towards Toronto until I was able to pick up those two. My unscientific measurements say I'm pointing about 10-15 degrees towards Toronto from Buffalo.

I'm receiving the following:

2.1 WGRZ-DT NBC Buffalo, NY
2.2 WGRZ-DT UNSPO Buffalo, NY
2.3 WGRZ-DT RTV Buffalo, NY
4.1 WIBV-DT CBS Buffalo, NY
5.1 CBLT-DT CBC Toronto, ON
7.1 WKBW-DT ABC Buffalo, NY
9.1 CFTO-DT CTV Toronto, ON
11.1 CHCH-DT E! Hamilton, ON
17.1 WNED-DT PBS-HD Buffalo, NY
17.2 WNED-DT PBS-SD Buffalo, NY
17.3 WNED-DT THINK Buffalo, NY
23.1 WNLO-DT CW Buffalo, NY
25.1 CBLFT-DT SRC Toronto, ON
29.1 WUTV-DT FOX-HD Buffalo, NY
29.2 WUTV-DT FOX-SD Buffalo, NY
36.1 CITS-DT CTS Hamilton, ON
40 CIII-DT GLOBAL Toronto, ON
44.1 CJMT-DT OMNI2 Toronto, ON
47
49.1 WNYO-DT My-HD Buffalo, NY
49.2 WNYO-DT My-SD Buffalo, NY
52
57.1 CITY-DT CITY Toronto, ON
64.1 CFMT-DT OMNI1 Toronto, ON
66.1 CKXT-DT SUN Toronto, ON

And some of their analog equivalents.

Not sure what 47 and 52 are (copied channel listing from somewhere else).

For anyone that's wondering, I'm using a CM4221, 100' of RG6. No preamp. :D

Hi folks. First, a shout-out to everyone who's posted here. Great info.

I've been fooling around trying to get OTA to replace cable.

My best results to date was today, Jan 10. Cold but sunny.

I have a hacked CM4221HD with a CM7777 about 22' high on a temporary mount. Aimed to get WUTV Fox, I get all the Buffalo channels that I want (CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, FOX) but very few Toronto stations. Not even CBC which surprised me. I took out the pre-amp thinking that it was overloading the tuner, but still no CBC. My Buffalo/Toronto angle is about 90 degrees, so not a big surprise.

I've been doing this testing to make sure I could get Fox in the winter as I read, here, that winter is harder than summer.

So this spring I'll be looking at a permanent roof mount, but as I live in a bungalow, my ridge line is only 18' off the ground.
I'm also concerned about all the tall trees that will grow leaves this spring.

So my main question is should I expect my reception to improve due to summer over lake Ontario or degrade due to tall trees?

I figure I'm going to have to get a second 4221 to point to Toronto, but that is a different issue.

BTW, this is my tvfool results:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3db32b2d4010ca18

Thanks all!

I am in Oakville and can say that you will likely see reception issues during Summer due to atmospheric and lake effect conditions. I find winter, for my setup, more predictable. However, with a properly configured array, we are only talking about signal strength fluctuations and an occasional drop of whatever your problem channels are - not wholesale loss.

Ys, you will likely need another antenna for the CN Tower - as many of us out in this area have discovered!

Thanks tenstu.

Do you have the CM4228 and CM4221 on the same mast?

At this point I have the option to get another CM4221HD or a CM4228HD to gang with my current hacked CM4221HD.

2 CM4221HDs on the same mast, the top one pointed at Buffalo and the lower one (by at least 25") pointed at Toronto hopefully would work for me.

But I'm wondering if the 4228 and 4221 will work and play well with each other as the additional gain for Buffalo is appealing.

You are welcome.

The 4228 is pointed at Buffalo and is on a separate mast on an overhanging porch roof at the back of my house. the 4221 is mounted at the side of the house and pointed at the CN tower. they play very nicely together and I like the xtra stability for Buffalo offered by the 4228.

The 4228 is amplified and the 4221 is not.

Hope this helps

Unless you intend to keep them separated like tenstu did I would go with 2 identical antennas at first to eliminate several problems right off the bat. From there we could evaluate your results and make further suggestions. :)

Thanks guys.

I'm not sure I want to go with dual masts at this point, so two 4221s seem like the way to go. I'll continue to experiment in my temporary set-up as I'm not going onto the roof before the weather improves.