Great results DavidT, even though I'm just less than a kilometer away from you, yet minor differences in result. :D

I tend to agree with PVRFan as well. I use a singe antenna A-D Lacrosse on the roof aimed directly at FOX and MyTV on Grand Island. I receive all Buffalo, Toronto and Hamilton channels without a rotator. That being said, signal strength of channels from Toronto and Hamilton are much lower than they could be but are strong enough to give me 100% reliability. When these channels go full strength in 2011, signal strength should improve. If you need better signal strength for your location, a dual antenna setup gives you maximum results with todays transmissions. I have an ideal location. From the roof I can see the CN tower, no trees, have clear LOS to the lake for Buffalo and have clear LOS to Hamilton. To be quite honest, any half decent antenna would work in my location, so I'll say Results Not Typical. Looking forward to the return of Universal Sports and Ion HD. This is a great area for OTA reception.

I tend to agree with PVRFan as well. I use a singe antenna A-D Lacrosse on the roof aimed directly at FOX and MyTV on Grand Island. I receive all Buffalo, Toronto and Hamilton channels without a rotator. That being said, signal strength of channels from Toronto and Hamilton are much lower than they could be but are strong enough to give me 100% reliability.

Geez Guys - hang on. first if all, I am in an exact "straight" line with this guy given our locations and as such, have a lot of first hand experience in this little block of Oakville. Secondly, in your comment above RustyHD, you admit that Toronto and Buffalo are much lower than they could be at your location (even though reliable).

You then mention that your location is a hotspot...

Guys, seriously. Most people in Oakville use a rotor or use two antennas. Do a search and you'll sort this out. I would prefer to help someone make the right decision NOW and get excellent results - rather then have them TRY different "hopeful" scenarios that might save a few dollars, but not offer the same results.

Can somebody tell me which channel from Buffalo I should be using to finetune? Should I be the 29.1 WUTV?

From Burlington, I always finetune to WUTV. If I can get 29.1 solid, then the rest of the channels are solid too. I am using a homemade GH10 as discussed in the other forum and get 18 channels/sub-channels rock solid - all from Buffalo except CTS Burlington and CH Hamilton.

I agree in a way, in order for me to receive both the Buffalo and Toronto networks, I had to find a little sweep spot for the antenna. But even then, my signal levels on some of the networks are fairly low (yet still stable). CTV is at about 60%, NBC at roughly 30%.

If I turn it just a bit towards Toronto, the Toronto networks all come in at near 100% but I lose some Buffalo networks, and vice-versa.

I was thinking this though, since even this tiny antenna is able to pick up the Toronto networks so well, what if I were to set up the smaller CM4220HD antenna towards Toronto and the larger CM4221HD towards Buffalo; think that would do well? From the roof, I have a perfect LOS with the CN Tower.

Oh, one other question, once the US completes the changeover to Digital DTV, will US networks be broadcasting stronger signals?

Your antenna combo should work very well if you are already experiencing good results. In my own case though, I had originally combined 2 4221's and found that Buffalo improved a lot in reliability when I "upgraded" that 4221 to a 4228. That does NOt mean you will need to go that route - just passing on my little journey...

I am not sure there is any consistent answer about what we will notice after June 12... Most expect to see improvements.

I too have same set-up of one 4228 and one 4221 antenna. It's just that Oakville has a bad reception angle from both locations (almost 90° apart, from my location Toronto CN Tower is 67° NE, Buffalo Grand Island is 137° SE, using tvfools), and this is a major factor for the decision to have single or two antennas, and this forum had helped me alot. Mississauga has a greater reception angle from both locations, one antenna is sufficient.

But hopefully this June 12 and this coming August 2011 when probably all Toronto stations will be 100% full strength, one antenna use will have a great possibility in Oakville (to get Toronto signals from the side of the Antenna). Like it is always said here in DHC, OTA is a trial and error, there are a lot of variables for each home.

Hi,

I agree with RustyHD....I live near '9th & Britannia' and with a SBGH in the attic I can get All the stations (with the occasional drop-out).

In my area...I feel only 1 antenna is needed without a rotor.


Yes, signal strenght may not be 100% ....but you do not need 100% to have a reliable picture. Example, Global TV is 70%.....and has never dropped.


When I put my newly purchased 4221HD on the roof, I'm sure my signal strength will definetly go up as opposed to the attic and the occasional drop-out will no longer be there.

BTW...I mounted the 4221HD (with the mods) near my SBGH to compare the two. Yes, since it is smaller, so it went into a 'slightly better' location. And the results are the same.....can't wait to get it on the roof.

:)

Well pvrfan, I am at Grosvenor and Falgarwood Drive, so I am barely west of you - and on the hill overlooking the Ford Plant Area. So I guess you'd have to be on the Mississauga border to use one antenna! :)

Some of you are lucky to use one and get the whole smack - but it is just my experience arounf the area that adding a second antenna unit and isolating the aim for each, ends up in less dropout and a more reliable experience overall.

My feeling is that I would rather advise new folks on a surefire, proven approach to allow them to have success right off the bat, instead of lots of experimenting and potential frustration. Lots of exceptions exist and that's fantastic - as I sure wish a one antenna solution would have worked for me. But, given the location in question, the previous poster's chances are greatly enhanced going with a combo.

...Most people in Oakville use a rotor or use two antennas. Do a search and you'll sort this out. I would prefer to help someone make the right decision NOW and get excellent results - rather then have them TRY different "hopeful" scenarios that might save a few dollars, but not offer the same results.
Tentsu, I think you mean well, but there are some issues with your blanket advice:

Cost--why spend more on a rotor or extra antenna if it is not necessary?
Wind loading--two antennas means your mounting system must be able to handle more stress. It won't be a bargain if the tripod rips out of the roof or the chimney blows down.
Failure points--rotors don't last forever. Probably they've improved, but in the 70's, our family's rotor seemed to fail every few years.
PVR use--driving a rotor, or selecting an antenna automatically, through your PVR system is MUCH more complicated. For me, this is the deal-breaker. My single antenna drives two tuners for recording plus the built-in one in the TV for live viewing.
Complexity--combining two antennas can be less than intuitively obvious. The FAQs have quite a lot of advice on doing the best job possible. And some people still have channels mysteriously disappear when using a multi-antenna system. Why expose yourself to that hassle if it is not necessary?

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying never. I just think that people should determine if they NEED a costly and complex system before they jump into it. With DTV, we need enough signal; not max signal.

I don't advocate for complication, which is why, instead of a rotor, I opted for two statically installed antennas myself. Thats said, I do stand my my advice.

Cost wise, an extra 4221 is relatively inexpensive for most flks - and especially if it leads to reduced cable/satellite costs.


The OP could draw a straight line from his house to Grand Island Buffalo and it would cross right over my house. He is slightly further north than I, meaning he would likely be better served with the setup I suggested.

Everyone in the forum gives super advice - thank goodness - and without it, I certainly would not be enjoying my setup. However, sometimes I think everyone jumps in with a quick 'caveat' to someones advice, only confusing things.

For example, I agree we need only ENOUGH signal - but that amount changes by the minute. You can prevent a good number of dropouts by having certain proven things in your setup - like a pre-amp and/or a 4228 for Buffalo instead of a 4221.

As I say, some of you are wonderfully lucky to have a one antenna solution that you say is up all the time - but you are the exception, not the rule, for receiving 100% of the available channels as close to 100% of the time as is possible.

I am just the type of guy who would install what is know to work 'for sure' and get it right the first time, instead of spending a lot more of my time, energy and perhaps even money, tinkering, adding and tweaking, just to end up buying what was known to work in the first place.

Sometimes what appears to be the cheapest route is the most expensive - or the shortest route, the longest.

From Burlington, I always finetune to WUTV. If I can get 29.1 solid, then the rest of the channels are solid too. I am using a homemade GH10 as discussed in the other forum and get 18 channels/sub-channels rock solid - all from Buffalo except CTS Burlington and CH Hamilton.
Where are you in Burlington that you don't get the evening tropo loss of WUTV-DT nor regular borderline performance of WGRZ-DT?

...I am just the type of guy who would install what is know to work 'for sure' and get it right the first time, instead of spending a lot more of my time, energy and perhaps even money, tinkering, adding and tweaking, just to end up buying what was known to work in the first place.
You are extrapolating your experience and insisting that it is universal. I've just spent a bit of time searching this thread and there are actually not many posts from people in Oakville east of, say, 4th Line. Some are using dual antennas, others single antennas with and without rotors. My point is that people should find the solution that works best in their situation. You are in a heavily treed, mature area which may have quite different reception from a new subdivision just a couple km's north.

Dual antennas do not work "for sure". For example, jgvp found he lost a channel (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=718106&postcount=691)in moving to a dual setup. Mystman8 found he gained for channels with a dual setup but lost WUTV (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=846477&postcount=967), "his favorite channel".

Tenstu, I don't expect to be able to convince you but I wanted any newbies looking at this thread to see that your oft-repeated advice is not the only view out there.

pvrfan, Thanks for taking the time to sift through here and point out the 'exceptions' that I have often referred to in my recent posts.

I do stand by my thoughts here, and hope that my assistance has helped folks over the time I have participated in the forum. There is room for all of us to have our opinions, which is one of the things I enjoy here.

However, at this point, I think what was a debate about advice has spiraled in to something different and adds nothing to the thread. Therefore, I will simply suggest we get this back on topic instead of rambling on about who may or may not be correct, their methodology, and stating the obvious caveats over and over and over again.

Stampeder, you could certainly delete my last group of posts in this thread (from the past couple of days) and I would not be upset in any way. Might help to remove some of the 'almost' off topic stuff.

I've never met neighbours who didn't disagree with each other about something, so I'm grateful to both of you that your discussion is a cordial and respectful disagreement. That is what the OTA Forum is all about: readers can sift through all the great info here and make enlightened decisions without having to wade through the kinds of petty acrimonies found in forums all over the web. Not here. :) My only comment is that we must all remember a simple fact of OTA reception: "I don't know if it will work the same for you but it worked fine next door!"

BTW, about the points in Post #1270: nobody should ever build an OTA antenna mount that is too flimsy or weak for their own conditions, and if they do, it is because they did not check the appropriate threads here first. :eek:

put up in the attic Channel Master 4228 8bay and is awesome !!.

Results.

2-1 NBC -
2-2 NBC Wather
4-1 CBS Buffalo
5-1 CBC Toronto
7-1 ABC Buffalo
11-1 CHCH Hamilton
17-1 PBS
17-2 PBS
17-3 Buffalo
23-1 CW Buffalo
26-1 TBN Buffalo
29-1 Fox Buffalo
36-1 CTS Hamilton
41-1 Global Toronto
49-1 My tv Buffalo
66-1 Sun TV Toronto

All Buffalo Channel Signal 88 % to 90% Toronto 55 %60%
I want Syracuse Channel.

Where are you in Burlington that you don't get the evening tropo loss of WUTV-DT nor regular borderline performance of WGRZ-DT?

I live in north Burlington near Guelph Line and Upper Middle. I still get the odd evening when FOX misbehaves, but WGRZ is rock solid. I use Snapstream as a PVR and record Jay Leno and Jimmy Fallon every night on WGRZ, and have had maybe 2 evenings in the last 4 months where it was a problem.

I live in north Burlington near Guelph Line and Upper Middle. I still get the odd evening when FOX misbehaves, but WGRZ is rock solid. I use Snapstream as a PVR and record Jay Leno and Jimmy Fallon every night on WGRZ, and have had maybe 2 evenings in the last 4 months where it was a problem.
Hah! I'm just north of you... and perhaps east... I'm between Guelph Ln & Walkers. I'd love to know how you're set up (antenna direction & height) to see how you get better performance with WUTV-DT! I'm beginning to wonder if I've got multipath issues that are pushed over the edge by the 'Sunset Tropo'... hey... great idea for a band name. ;)

Hey Bestia, how did you get the CM4228 into the attic? Do you mean the CM4228HD as well?

Just installed a 'clone' 4 bay. GREAT reception (70's and 80's) for:
2.1 WGRZ NBC
2.2 WGRT NB NBC Sports
4.1 WIVB CBS
5.1 CBC
7.1 WKBW ABC
9.1 CFTO CTV
11.1 CHCH comes and goes, need to tweak direction mbe?
17.1 .2 and .3 PBS WNED
23.1 WNLO-DT The CW
25.1 CBLFT-DT CBC French
26.1 WNYB-DT
29.1 WUTV-DT FOX
44.1 OMNI 2
57.1 CityTV
64.1 OMNI 1

Getting Global in analog on 41, but not 41.1 digital. Why? It's on the CN Tower right? If I get CityTV and CTV, why not Global?

SunTV also doesn't come in. Want to re-aim more towards the CN Tower. I was aimed directly at Grand Island NY but got only US channels. The more I aim at the CN Tower, the better I got Toronto stations. Mbe a bit more will do it :)

BTW, Watch Global TV news on Friday June 12th for Sean O'Shea's segment on OTA etc.