I've been using two CM4221s ( one aimed at the CN Tower and the other at Buffalo,) in my home office on the second floor of my house together with the EyeTV system on my iMac. I'm located near to the Lake in East Oakville, so I don't get all the channels that others in higher elevations receive despite being further distant from Buffalo. Now that the better weather conditions are on the way, can I really expect considerably more channels by placing the antennae outside mounted on a chimney, or is the fact that I am so low to begin with counter-productive ? I'm also now questioning why I opted for the 2 x CM4221s instead of a single CM4228.

jgvp, hi how are you see you still have not mounted the antenna's it on your chimney yet. :rolleyes:

By mounting the antenna's outdoor sgnal strength should be stronger especially with more height.

Yes, height is definitely your friend in this situation.

Since all the DTV signals around here are UHF (for the meantime) their propogation behaviour is very much line of sight. The higher you mount your antenna the better.

I put the CM4221 clone up at a higher point, MYtv buffalo (49-1) comes in at night (Varying times) and is a lower powered than Fox (MyTV 175KW, Fox 1000KW), PBS still comes in strong and is only 156KW.

I can't understand why I am unable to receive FOX, NBC, or ABC as they are all in the same direction? Fox is more southern pointed which would make it harder to get signal, however NBC and ABC both are omnidirectional.

Could there be a reason why CW and PBS, both low powered and in the same area are excellent signal strength and the others not (or very hard) to obtain signal?

Thanks,

D

After a bit of tweaking (an hour and a half).
I was able to get NBC and ABC. It was a sunny day as well, not sure if this is a factor. ABC was coming in at 4 bars which is plenty of signal NBC was fluctuating between 3 and 4 bars. Today (weather is rainy), there is no signal from either of them. I think I will go buy the CM4228 and see how I fair. The clone is probably not good enough. Just to note, when I used a pre-amp, I lost a lot of channels, running the cable into the house and then into an indoor amp got me much better results.
I can't wait to see how the CM4228 fairs. I will have to give Nutech a call and see if they have them in.

Cheers,

D

Hi all,

Just remounted my 4224 a few feel higher than it was previously due to some landscaping and have now lost WUTV. We are putting in a patio and had to remove the 12 foot high pole in favor of a roof mount trippod on a back porch roof. Antenna is now about 3-4 feet higher.

I have always had to be careful picking up 29 and 57 and had to find JUST the right angle for the antenna. I was able to find this angle previously and had excellent results.

With the new height it is now one or the other. Thought I had it today by lowering it a bit - but lost 29 tonight - same sort of issue last night. (do they alter power??)

Other info: In Oakville at 8th line/Upper Middle area with view of lake. Am running a Winegard preamp on the pole already- all other possible buffalo and toronto stations are coming in perfectly.

So - what to do? I am SO close to having both at this height that I can't imagine a rotor. An internal amp kills the signal (as I am already pre-amped).

Would a 4228 fix this for me? If so, I'll make the switch.

Thanks!

Stu

Hi Stu,
if I understand you right, you're trying to find a compromise between 29 and 57, which are in different directions?
No, the 4228 won't do it, it is more directional than the 4221.
What would work is 2, 4221's stacked, and then you combine them in phase and you can point in slightly different directions to make your pick up angle wider.
No, stations don't reduce power at night. Losing reception in the evening happens to everbody. especially over a lake. Mist rises from the lake. Fog is the worst thing you can do for reception other then a big steel/concrete building.
And the reason you got them both before you got more height, is called scatter, picking up little bits of signal from various reflections.

Thanks Tom - I appreciate the info. Can you point me in the right direction for instructions on how to combine two 4221's in phase? Stacking will be simple enough, but combining the signals is a new concept for me. Thanks!

Thanks Tom - I appreciate the info. Can you point me in the right direction for instructions on how to combine two 4221's in phase? Stacking will be simple enough, but combining the signals is a new concept for me. Thanks!
A splitter backwards is a combiner. The leads from each antenna to the combiner need to be equal lengths and your balun's have to be the same and in phase.

Lots of combining instructions around the forums. Used to be a thread called 'antenna tips and tricks'?

Found the info shortly after asking. am heading out of town until next week, but will pick up another 4221, stack em, and let the forum know ho it works out. Thanks again!

Stu

Hi Tom,

I have been successful in combining the two 4221's with one pointing toward buffalo and the other to the CN tower. I can report that I am receiving strong signal on ALL possible channels EXCEPT Fox 29-1. (Fox 29-0 the old signal is perfect).

I am at a loss now as to how I am going to bump things up for 29-1. I tried (what seemed like) 100's of tweaks and combos of positioning the two stacked 4221's and ALMOSt had it. for some reason (tropo?) it has now completely disappeared from the TV.

The two 4221's are about 2.5 feet apart on a mast/tripod stand on my back porch roof. op antenna is to CN tower, (6 feet high) and lower is to Buffalo (2-3 feet high) Tried the reverse pointing (top to Buffalo) with worse results.

Am already running awinegard pre-amp at the mast.

Ideas anyone??

Thanks,

Stu

UPDATE

Just found the issue. If the 2 antennas are anywhere near each other - 29 drops out completely. Although all others are just fine. Odd. Even 6- 10 feet apart (in the same quadrant of my backyard) - same issue. Seemed to me if antenna 2 got a whiff of signal from 29-1 - end of the signal completely.

So, I have left one 4221 on the porch roof pointed at Buffalo and get excellent quality on all stations - NBC/Fox being the lowest - but still quite good.

The other antenna will now be mounted on the side of the chimney pointed at the CN Tower, where it is picking up all offered there. Will finish tomorrow and expect all to be as hoped.

Many thanks to all who helped here (Tom!) and I hope this might help others who are combining in the future.

Stu

tenstu, what is the total amount of coax by the time it gets to the ATSC tuner?

Stu, After I combined the 2 antennas, i found out that i didn't need as much signal from the toronto antenna, I pointed it more south, so toronto stations are about 45 degrees off axis so pick up the cn tower etc on a side lobe.
That increased strength on all the buffalo channels.
My cable run is about 40ft RG11. I had a pre-amp, made things worse. Threw it out.

Hi Stampeder,

At present, it would be about 30 feet from mast to TV directly the only splitter being the combiner I just installed. I plan to put in a distribution point though, so I can feed 2 more TV's in the house with OTA. It will mean the same distance to the current TV in question, but it will be split prior to reaching the TV tuner. Will keep the Winegard preamp attached PRIOR to the distribution split.

Stu

Hi Tom, The pre-amp has been on my mind as well, but after working on it all today (mounting the second antenna in a different spot aimed only at toronto as mentioned previously) it is all working nicely. Will have a chance tomorrow to try the no pre-amp signal when I disconnect to add a splitter in my basement for distribution. Had initially attempted to do exactly what you ended up ding, but could not bring in 29-1. Never thought to kill the pre-am at the time.

Noticed today too that antenna 2 (aimed at Toronto) will not work unless grounded to the same pole as antenna one - and then allowing a bowtie connector to touch the wall mount. Weird.

In south Burlington near the lake, with rabbit ears against my window on the second story of my house, with a wall that faces almost directly towards Buffalo, I pick up the following channels:

14 29.1 WUTV-HD (FOX29 Buffalo)
14 29.2 WUTV-SD
18 11.1 CHCH-DT (Hamilton)
32 23.1 WNLO-HD (TheCW)
33 2.1 WGRZ-HD (NBC Buffalo)
33 2.2 WGRZ-SD
34 49.1 WNYO-HD (MyTV Buffalo)
34 49.2 WNYO-SD
38 7.1 WKBW-HD (ABC Buffalo)
38 7.2 WNGS (RTN11)
38 7.3 WCSN
39 4.1 WIVB-HD (CBS Buffalo)
43 17.1 WNED-HD (PBS Buffalo)
43 17.2 WNED-SD
43 17.3 WNED-Th

I also pick up CBLT-DT if I rotate the antenna about 100 degrees to face Toronto instead. FOX and MyTV don't always come in. CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, CW all come in with high signal strength on my Hauppage WinTV-PVR 1600.

I have yet to see CTV, CityTV, SunTV or Global. Hoping that with a better antenna I will be able to pick those up. I'm planning on making a DGBH, but for now I am quite contented with the ones I do receive.

The only thing that kind of upsets me is that in Kingston the PBS broadcast was in 1080, but from Buffalo it's only 720, and also, the WNED logo is huge and obtrusive, while WPBS had a small translucent logo only. Ah well!

South Burlington is a tough location. With a roof mounted, rotor mounted 4228 8 bay antenna with a preamp to 1 ATSC tuner I just barely get a reliable CITY-DT. Sun and Global light up the light but only 1 bar and no picture. CTV is normally OK. If I split the signal I lose City. I get SUN TV from the other direction on 15.1 with a strong signal. I'm pondering snipping the bowtie elements on the antenna for better signal on >53 signals but if I lose Fox on 14.1 I will be despondent. Anyone had success with this 4228 amputation procedure?

Anyone had success with this 4228 amputation procedure?Just remember that cutting those bowties is a one-time process and you could very well lose important signals in the lower range as you shift your antenna's channel capabilities upwards. Also be aware that the plan is to phase out channels above 51 in the years ahead. Have you thought about building a DBGH to see if that's a better possibility?

In this thread see Posts #16 through 22 about the CM4228 frequency shift trick: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=41990

Hi Biggy,

Glad to hear of your great success with signals! With the help of the bard members here, my 2 4221 combined setup brings in the following:

WGRZ 2-1, 2-2 at 65%
WIVB 4-1 90%
CBC 5-1 at 92%
WKBW 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 at 90%
CTV 9-1 at 75-80%
WNED 17-1, 17-2, 17-3 at 95%
WNLO 23-1 at 65%
CBC F 25-1 at 80%
WNYB 26-1 Intermittent reception - mostly not received
WUTV 29-1, 29-2 80%
CIII 41-1 at 70%
WNYO 49-1, 49-2 at 65%
WWTI 50-1, 50-2 Intermittent reception - mostly not received
CITY 57-1 65-70%
CKXT 66-1 55%

That's it for now. Will certainly be interested in the OMNI channels reception levels when they come up later. Also should add that most of these reception levels pulled today (Friday May 9th at noon EST) seem about 5-10% lower than normal - especially from the CN tower. Tropospheric I presume - or more leaves on the trees!

Are you receiving any others Biggy?

Stu

Hi Stu,

Thanks for the detail information, it’s great to see you have done so well, here are a couple of more stations you should be able to pickup.

CTS 35-1 Hamilton Cross Roads http://www.crossroads.ca/index.html

E! 18 1 CHCH 11 Hamilton

As for the OMNI channels, way back when they started testing (Broadcasting) I had no problems receiving them from my location although they power output is only 15 KW

They just got flip the switch :p

Biggy