It will be something between 700 Kw and 800 Kw fot both CBFT and CBMT

Good enough for me. As long as this maintains their original coverage, I think I should be fine. I suspect my rabbit ear using cottage neighbors will be in for a surprise this August though. Good time to finally convince (I have tried) them to buy a real antenna.

They could pump out a megawatt on Channels 19, 20 and 21 and not be able to completely replicate the range of their coverage on Channels 2 and 6. This would be something especially noticed by distant viewers.
However, in the urban areas closer to Montreal, 600-700 kW on UHF from Mount Royal will be plenty. It will probably be an improvement in coverage for most OTA viewers, who would likely use set-top rabbit ears and for whom Channels 2 and 6 would look quite fuzzy at the moment.

I hope you're right, l'Inquisiteur, because at that power, i might get them at the cottage, in the Laurentians...
CBFT on channel 2 and CBMT on channel 6 are coming in very fine in the mountains, not the same for UHF stations from Montreal ( all blurry ) , except those from Burlington and Plattsburg, who are bouncing in a near by mountain top

but i wounder if CBMT, on channel 21, at 800Kw will create some interferences to WCAX, 22.....

I don't really think CBFT & CBMT need that much power to match their current analog range. Don't forget, less power is needed to cover the same area in digital. Even when you take into consideration going from VHF to UHF.

Also, I would hope that they create a better omni-directional pattern to direct their signals north-east or east of the mountain. Having their signals reaching half way down to Vermont is pointless. The same goes with Eastern Ontario. The Ottawa stations, CBOT & CBOFT, are covering those areas. No need for a major overlap.

For CBMT-DT, I would think focusing on aiming their signal towards Drummonville will help them bring digital TV to the area instead of having them wait until they replace the old analog re-transmitters. I would think that their Quebec city station, and CBMT would directionally blanket the areas between the two, and get digital CBC available to most Quebecers.

Even at 1 MW, UHF cannot replicate VHF-Lo coverage. However, the current Industry Canada regulations limit digital stations to 100km contours, so even trying to replicate the old contours is not allowed.

Of course, with good antenna (which is easier for UHF because it can be made much smaller for the same gain), you'll get CBC and SRC much further than 100km.

High power doesn't bug me. No everyone has optimal reception conditions. Apartment/condo and basement dwellers would benefit from the extra oomph if they don't have LOS reception of Mount Royal — especially if they are somehow prevented from putting a good antenna outside.
The higher ERPs should also help a little with the hilly regions outside of Montreal. (And there sure are a lot of hills at a certain distance away from the metro area.)
As for signal overlap/spillage, there might be less of it than we're imagining. Beware those overlapping coverage areas on contour maps, where the purported coverage areas don't necessarily reflect real-world reception.
Looking at TV Fool, LOS to the west of Mount Royal @ 25 feet receive height doesn't extend past the Ontario-Quebec border. Around Cornwall, there is no LOS from Camp Fortune (Ottawa) either. That city falls in the purple range of both those sites, according to TV Fool's maps.
To the east, Drummondville is also beyond LOS of Mount Royal and is in the purple range of Montreal's highest power analog UHF station, CIVM. Once the digital transition is over, viewers there are better off trying to catch the CBC repeater off Mont-Carmel (Trois-Rivières), for which there is LOS reception.
And Drummondville is definitely too far from CBC's Mont-Bélair and Avenue Myrand sites (Quebec City).

Even so, 1MW on ch 19 won't replicate 100 kW on channel 2. (And, since you're from Alberta, it certainly won't replicate 600 kW on ch 3 in Edmonton.)

That's the theory. In practice, you may get a watchable signal on UHF with a high gain antenna where at the same distance, the VHF lo signal would have visible impairments.

Well, I think that even though the Lo-VHF coverage cannot be reproduced exactly even at high power levels, the 700,800 or whatever KW they are using should really push the signal out to far areas, especially with a good UHF antenna. Also, is the gain (in general) for good UHF antennas, like the 4228, higher on the post-transition channels (19,21) than the gain on Lo-VHF channels (2,6) for the average all-channel yagi that most people seem to have? If so, that would help even if the signal bends around terrain less than low VHF.

mille: Even if the current Montreal UHFs are blurry, at least you get something. The UHF stations right now are all below 800kw, and they are higher frequencies. I think at that power they should be receivable for you, and many others, even with mountains.

As for whether CBMT will interfere will WCAX? I think it depends where you are. For me, WCAX is my strongest station, so probably not. On the other hand, if you are up north - then maybe. It might come down to your tuner.

Sorry, tvlurker, I deleted the message you were responding to! I erased it as soon as I realized what I'd written. Not fast enough, it seems. Essentially, I agree with you. ;)

p.s. I grew up/lived in Montreal for a long time before moving to Alberta and I continue to visit frequently, so what I write about Quebec and eastern/southern Ontario isn't just based on maps and theory.

The actual coverage is not replicate, even with 800 Kwatts.

But right now you can received, with a good outside antenna, Channel 19 in St-Helen-De-Bagot. So with 800 Kwatts on the top of th Mt-Royal thats gonna be much better...

p.s. I grew up/lived in Montreal for a long time before moving to Alberta and I continue to visit frequently, so what I write about Quebec and eastern/southern Ontario isn't just based on maps and theory.

moi aussi. Until recently, my father still lived in Montreal, so I checked put the digital situation there regularly.

I think the bottom line on all these things is that
1. EHAAT-based contours are fairly useless
2. Longley-Rice simulations are better, but not foolproof
3. Real life experience will tell you in the end what channels you can get.

Exactly.

Ex.: Tvfool maps say I cannot receive channel 6, at all. I can, and with a rusty VU-90 to boot. As well, the American channels, with the exception of WCAX (so WPTZ, WETK, WFFF and WVNY) all have negative NM values, once again making them difficult or impossible to receive. IRL, both WPTZ, WCAX and WETK are very strong, and WFFF and WVNY are receivable on days without precipitation.

I think we can all agree that even though the reception for stations moving to UHF from VHF like CBMT or CBFT will be different, in the end the only way to find out is to try it out in real life. And with that much power, the signals are bound to go far and I believe many of us may end up happier with a nice clear digital signal, rather than a stronger but snowy analogue one.

As radio-canada said it will install the transmission antena on June-August at the top of Mont Royal, can we say we will watch the new signal before end of the year?(I hope)

According to a PDF presentation posted on this forum a few months ago, Industry Canada will allow the introduction of new services from Mount Royal once CBC is done with renovations to meet Code 6 radio-frequency safety regulations. (As it happens, those are mainly to do with replacing two FM arrays.)
If the renos are slated to be finished by September, my guess is that CBMT-DT (CBC) and CBFT-DT (SRC) will move to Mount Royal before the year is out.
Incidentally, the change will also mean other services will soon be able to apply for transitional DTV services from Mount Royal. It would therefore be logical if CKMI (Global) added their DTV undertaking next, seeing how it seems they are staying on the mountain post-transition anyway, as reported by someone on the French forums of this site.
The same member also reported CIVM (Télé-Quebec) and CFJP (V) won't be returning to Mount Royal after August 2011. They already have DTV transmission sites elsewhere.

downbeat:

thank for your answer.
I already wrote to Radio-Canada to express my strong wish the new transmission antenna.

W52CD-LP from St-Albans,VT is back on the air. We'll see how long this lasts.

W52CD-LP from St-Albans,VT is back on the air. We'll see how long this lasts.

Yesterday during The Incredible Hulk, it's was cutting like there was no tomorrow.

The Station owners said that they want a full power stick pointed at Montreal before the end of 2010 whth RTV, MyTV and other:

http://cecmediagroup.com/Product.html
(http://cecmediagroup.com/Product.html)

From FYBUSH.com:

CEC is also working on a relaunch of its TV signal across the lake in Saranac Lake, New York. WNMN (Channel 40) has been carrying a feed of the Retro TV programming from sister station WGMU-LP (Channel 39) in Burlington, and it's adding My Network TV on another of its digital subchannels as well.

The Station owners said that they want a full power stick pointed at Montreal before the end of 2010 whth RTV, MyTV and other
That doesn't sound very realistic. Aren't they having enough trouble with their current transmitters as it is?

I got a lock on WNVY 22-1 and 22-2 last night for the first time ever, I notice that only when the Mont-Royal transmitter was down for upgrades, but the signal was gone this morning. Will try again tonight when it is down again for maintenance. So maybe CTV 12 is really the reason that we can't catch ABC 22 ?

That is a good example of ACI (Adjacent Channel Interference), common in the old NTSC analogue system. When things go completely digital you have reason to be hopeful based on what you saw.