What I like about these channels (eg THIS, weather+) is not just the shows, but the cheesey low budget commercials. THIS Buffalo runs this ad about a rubber chicken, a manequin and buying used gold- totally off the wall- sorry getting off topic of Windsor/London OTA- had to mentioned it. Cheers!

This question is in regards to choosing a UHF antenna or a combo UHF/VHF. If I got with just a UHF and going for the detroit channels I should get all the detroit channels (which are 100% digital right?).....

The 7 (soon to be 8) Detroit HD stations are all UHF at this time. In June, when the US analog cutoff occurs, one of them will move to the VHF band.

Existing:
ABC WXYZ-DT UHF 41
CBS WWJ-DT 44
FOX WJBK-DT 58
NBC WDIV-DT 45
PBS WTVS-DT 43
The CW WKBD-DT 14
My Network TV WMYD-DT 21

ION WPXD-DT 31 (on the air digitally, not HD yet, but expected soon)

After June 12th:
FOX WJBK-DT 7
All others remain the same

Note:
Both WTVS and WMYD are no longer broadcasting an analog signal.

it's unlikely, but still possible that WJBK-DT will move from 58 to 7, and then to 20 (their old choice), especially if a large enough amount of people lose reception. 20 or 50 would be a great pick for them.

WDIV ch.4 has been running a crawl about reducing their analog power on May 15.

Rumour has it that Shaw cable may be purchasing CHWI ch.16 (as well as a couple other stations).

Isn't CKCO-DT (channel 7) mutually-exclusive with the digital allocation of WKBW-DT (also on 7)? I know they'll have some severe co-channel interference, since Buffalo is within grade-b coverage of the Baden Tower (which CKCO broadcasts from). I can see some strong objections from the FCC and WKBW-DT if that happens.. but i think that topic of discussion belongs on the kitchener/Toronto/Buffalo thread.

What type of setup do you have? you migth be able to get WJW-DT and WFXP-DT on a regular basis if you go high enough...

Isn't CKCO-DT (channel 7) mutually-exclusive with the digital allocation of WKBW-DT (also on 7)? I know they'll have some severe co-channel interference, since Buffalo is within grade-b coverage of the Baden Tower (which CKCO broadcasts from). I can see some strong objections from the FCC and WKBW-DT if that happens.. but i think that topic of discussion belongs on the kitchener/Toronto/Buffalo thread.

1. The Canadian Digital Transition Plan was agreed to by the FCC many years ago.
2. Discussion of CTV's use of digital transitional allocations for stations that will flash cut to their analog channels in 2011 is academic, since CTV does not plan to build any of these transitional stations between now and 2011. In 2011, CKCO-DT (if built) is supposed to be on 13.

More on Detroit:

WJBK-DT says they still plan to move the digital channel to 7, once WXYZ-TV 7 goes off the air on June 12th.
WPXD is no longer broadcasting an analog signal.

PBS Erie 54.2 is now hosting a 'how to do' channel called CREATE. I believe it is a network show that is operated by the University of North Carolina.

alright.. the digital transition in the United States is drawing closer and closer... Rather than lose the toledo locals, i want to find out exactly what i will need in order to retain WTOL, WTVG, WGTE, WUPW, and WNWO. My current antenna's directional and doesn't pick up any of the digital signals from toledo... i fear i may be too far from them, or i may need a second antenna (is it possible to merge two antennas into one input?)... I'm also wondering if it will be possible to pick up any flint or cleveland stations from my position in Windsor...

Channels i want to pick up (analog, digital):
WTOL: 11, 17 (moving back to 11)
WTVG: 13, 19 (moving back to 13)
WNWO: 24, 49 (staying on 49)
WGTE: 29
WUPW: 36, 46 (staying on 46)
WPXD: 31 (it drops out now and then, which is annoying. i know i'm 45 miles from the transmitter, but it's a good station with good subchannels)
CHWI-TV 16, 66 (moving back to 16 in 2011, not sure if it will launch at all on 66)
CHWI-TV-60 60, 65 (moving to 25 in 2011, not sure if it will launch at all on 65)
CIII-TV-22 22, 6 (returning to 22 in 2011, not sure if it will launch at all on 6)
CKCO-TV-3 42 (unknown digital channel, if any)
CHCH-TV-2 51 (unknown digital channel, if any)

Stations i'd like, but i'm not sure about:
WKYC: 3, 2 (moving to 17)
WEWS: 5, 15 (staying on 15)
WLNS: 6, 59 (moving to 36)
WJW: 8 (probable co-channel interference with WUDT-CD on 8)
WJRT: 12, 36 (staying on 12)
WILX: 10 (probable co-channel interference with WOIO-DT)
WOIO: 19, 10 (staying on 10)
WEYI: 25, 30 (staying on 30, probable co-channel interference with WBNX-DT on 30)
WFUM: 28 (probable co-channel interference with WUAB-DT on 28)
WUAB: 43, 28 (probable co-channel interference with WFUM-DT on 28)
WBNX: 55, 30 (staying on 30, probable co-channel interference with WEYI-DT on 30)

I'm also wondering what my grandfather in Forest Glade should expect to get after the digital transition. he's on Cogeco basic cable, but he's considering on getting a rooftop antenna to cut expenses if the signal quality is good enough.

As of 3 AM, WTVS-DT has lost its subchannels, operating only 56.1... no PBS-XD or Create for me... i was looking forward to Rick Steve's Europe, too x.x

Looks like Equity Media Holdings' Class-A station WUDT-CA (Univision channel 23, construction permit for digital on 8) is being sold to the religious network Daystar Television Network, just like WNGS-TV Buffalo....

the full list of who is buying what and for how much is here: http://www.rbr.com/tv-cable/tv_deals/14101.html

Equity Media Holdings is a now-bankrupt firm that went on a CTV-style buying spree of low-power, class-A and full-power stations, and previously owned the Retro Television Network before selling it off. Most of their growth was in teh past 5 years, and now they are scrambling to stay solvent and buy digital equipment.

I normally have a good lock on Erie channels WSEE35.1/.2/.3 & WQLN54.1/.2/.3 at 80%+ & FOX66.1 at 30%+. Lately I've been finding that sometimes they don't all seem to lock in at the same time.
_______________
Example :

If WQLN is in, I don't get WSEE
If WSEE is in I don't get WQLN
_______________

Erie's WQLN stations are broadcasting on channels 50.1/.2/.3 remapping to 54.#s
Erie's WSEE stations are broadcasting on channels 16.1/.2/.3 remapping to 35.#s


They should not have any influence on each other. Is it just coincidence?

Looks like the detroit stations are listening to the emails i sent them... WPXD-DT wanted to switch from 31 (being stuck in Ann Arbor), to using 19 in Southfield, MI, but the CRTC "feared" interference with CKXD-DT-2 (also on 19, in London), and denied it. Now, they have applied to use channel 50 when WKBD shuts down its analog signal and broadcasts digital-only on 14. i hope this works out. I don't know of anyone in nearby areas operating on 50, and CHCH-TV-2 on 51 should not cause any interference....

The current setup is:

Broadcasting from Chelsea, MI (northwest of Ann Arbor, MI, closer to Lansing (25 miles) than to downtown detroit (55 miles) on UHF 31 at 110 kW.

Proposed setup is:
Broadcasting on UHF 50 from WKBD-DT and WTVS-DT's shared tower in Southfield, MI at 345 KW. I don't see how the CRTC could whine and deny this proposal... that or if ION Television shut down W48AV in Warren and switched the station to use that channel...

In this case their opposition may be WNWO in Toledo, or the FCC itself, since, under the tighter post-transition rules, a channel 50 would have to be further North than the Southfield tower farm to not be mutually exclusive with channel 49 used by WNWO.

The may still have a case, however, since much if any area where a hypothetical WPXD on 50 would conflict with WNWO is over Canada and Lake Erie. They may also make the case that since WNWO is below maximum power and directional to the South, that the areas in question are not served by WNWO anyway, and thus not entitled to protection.

One other quirk - WPXD may find itself having to change its city of license to one further away from Toledo (e.g. Pontiac - county seat of a county of 1.6 M population, and no TV station licensed to it [ironic, since that county is home to all of the Detroit transmitters and all but two of the studios]).

One other note - Barrington (WNWO owner) is in little economic position to mount a huge legal battle.

You mean Southfield, MI... and WKBD-TV currently occupies channel 50... i get strong co-channel interference from WEAO-TV (PBS 49 Cleveland) and WNWO-DT (NBC 24 Toledo's digital signal), rendering both unviewable.

The station's current City of License is Ann Arbor, MI, which readily gets signals from Detroit, Toledo, Lansing, and Flint...

Besides, i thought analog and digital signals were designed to not interfere with each other... i have WXYZ-DT 41, CKCO-TV 42, WTVS-DT 43, WWJ-DT 44, and WDIV-DT 45, all next to each other...(on warm nights, i can even add WLMB and CBLN fighting it out on 40.. CBLN usually wins)

If that fails, why not just shut down the main transmitter, move it to Southfield, and bring it up on UHF 48 (eliminating the need for W48AV), or converting W48AV into a digital low-power repeater of all four channels (31.1, 31.2, 31.3,and 31.4)? I know this would still be in between W66BV-D and WNWO-DT, but i think it would be far more appropriate if 50 is unsuitable for whatever reason (i can't think of any... even 20 would be a good fit)

Lately, 31.1 has been unavailable, even in good weather. Could this be from transmitter issues, or is this more co-channel from CITY-TV-3 Woodstock?

Exactly why do the toledo stations have a huge null to the north and east? are they trying to deprive me of alternate network programming? :P

Pontiac is the county seat of Oakland County, Southfield is a city in Oakland County. There is no Southfield County, MI.

I've had considerable tropo to Ontario a few of the past several nights (including 28 and 31 from the Kitchener-Waterloo area), so CITY1 may be making things difficult for those in Canada who are watching WPXD-DT or WJW-DT.

Many of the Detroit DTV stations (as in other large cities) are on adjacent channels because DTV can tolerate strong signals on adjacent channels IF neither station is much stronger that the other. Ideally, adjacent channel DTV stations are paired on the same tower (note that WTVS analog 56 used the WKBD tower at the Western edge of Southfield, but WTVS-DT 43 uses the WWJ tower in Oak Park, with WWJ-DT on 44 - if WTVS were to use 43 from the WKBD tower [about 13km WNW], it might cause trouble with WWJ-DT there, and receive interference from WWJ-DT around 8 Mile and Meyers). WDIV-DT is also adjacent to WWJ-DT, on 45, but it is only about 5km away. Having a channel 50 on the WKBD tower only makes sense if you assume nobody is watching WNWO within about 20km of the WKBD tower (Historically true, since WNWO - analog and digital - has been directional, and Detroit has an NBC affiliate [and had an ABC O&O when WNWO was ABC]).

Toledo has a long history of directional TV transmitters. Toledo is an unusual TV market - too close to a much larger (for now, maybe) Detroit market. Logical engineering policy would have been to put a Toledo tower farm somewhere near Bowling Green. This would have provided a good signal to hundreds of small to mid-size cities in Northwest Ohio whose population (combined) add up to more than Toledo's. This would have meant that the stations would not "waste" so much coverage over Lake Erie, and it would have meant that both Detroit and Toledo could have had more UHF stations (i.e., it would have eliminated problems with the 8 channel and 14 channel "taboos")
However, when local TV first came to Toledo (WSPD, now WTVG, 1948), Toledoans were already watching TV from Detroit, and all their antennas were already aimed East-Northeast. To put a station South of Toledo would have produced a ghosty picture on Toledo sets. So WSPD-TV (eventually) built its transmitter in Oregon, OH, Northeast of downtown Toledo (WTVG's tower is still a short walk from Lake Erie). Since WSPD was (and I do mean was, WTVG is now an ABC O&O) co-owned with WJBK in Detroit, they had to operate a directional antenna (so as, in accord with old FCC rules, their city grade curve did not overlap with WJBK's).
I don't know if WDHO (now WNWO) and WUPW used directional antennas so as not to infringe on the Detroit market/network agreements, or if it was to save electrical power.
One note: On June 12th, WTOL and WTVG will be moving their digital transmitters to their original analog channels (11 and 13, respectively), and they will both be omnidirectional.

I thought only WTVG and WGTE would be omnidirectional... did WTOL get permission to go omni, too?

OOPS! I goofed in my last post, and I don't see an edit button:
"Toledoans were already watching TV from Detroit, and all their antennas were already aimed East-Northeast"
SHOULD HAVE READ:
"Toledoans were already watching TV from Detroit, and all their antennas were already aimed NORTH-Northeast."

sorry.

WTOL (analog) has been omnidirection since they came on the air in 1958.
WTOL-DT (digital 17) has been directional.
WTOL-DT permanent (11, post-transition) had originally applied for a new directional channel 11 antenna. When engineers realized that their existing analog antenna could pass the entire bandwidth of a digital channel 11 signal, the applied to do so and were thus granted.
The specified power level corresponds perfectly to the limits of their Canadian coordination.

sweet! i may be able to retain 11 after all!

hmmm
hi ota canuck
I think i see a typo in your list.

Isnt WICU the NBC afililate in Erie? which is 12.
WSEE is the CBS afilate in Erie, i believe.

read ya l8r,
Al