I get this 20kw station quite snowy, but never 15kw W33BY. I Did see it through major CICO-32? interference a couple times in the winter. Nothing but weird rap/hiphop videos at the time.

yeah, that's W33BY.. mostly call-in, rap/hip-hop, religious, and infomerical shows on that station...

I'm on the other side of the river, but I can pick up 5 of the 7 Toledo stations just fine. WNWO is picky sometimes because of being directional and operating on lower power, but it's there. I can't lock in WLMB because it's lo-VHF, and WBGU is too far south.

I can even pick up WLNS and WILX out of Lansing somewhat, and WLAJ barely registers on the meter. WFUM Flint comes in great, because it's almost in Oakland County.

I'm guessing the Windsor stations won't go digital until just before the deadline. I know the current plans for CBET and CBEFT are near the end, because Windsor is not "a major market" even though there's viewship (for CBET at least) on the other side of the river. Those two and CICO should come in fine after the transition, but CHWI and CIII probably won't. CKCO is non existant even on analog.

nice! thanks for your cross-border reception info!

I was worried for a while if i put up a 25-foot mast, that i'd have co-channel interference between WLAJ-DT and CHCH-TV-2, since they're both on 51. If it doesn't even reach ann arbor... i should be safe.

I also see i won't be getting WILX and WLNS anymore, aside from tropo scatter events.

Canada's signals will probably not go digital before 2011. At this rate, they may even have the deadline pushed back to 2015. I'd love to see CBET-DT and CBEFT-DT in high definition, along with CICO.

CHWI-TV-60 is a low-power repeater on the Victoria Park Place with a slightly directional (to the southeast) aim. CHWI-TV-16's pattern closely follows the curve of the detroit river, and is fairly weak for a UHF signal (only 500-something KW).

No surprise about CKCO-TV-3 and the remaining windsor-area local stations... theyr'e all low-power in chatham.

what's the quality for CBET, CHWI-TV, CICO, and CBEFT? crystal clear? snowy? barely viewable?

I'm about 15 miles (20-25 km?) east of Ann Arbor, so WLAJ probably comes in there. For me, it's 5% at the most, except under certain conditions. It's a directional antenna. I have a bungalow house, with an large antenna about 3-4 feet above the roof. I can't get WHTV, WSYM, and WKAR at all, either due to directional antennas or lack of power.


CBET and CICO are crystal clear, CBEFT is good if pointed just right, CHWI 16 and CIII are fair to poor (plenty of static), and I've never been able to pick up 60 or CKCO. I will on a rare occasion get the LPTV in Leamington, but the picture is very poor.

CICO is a pretty good station, especially when they air movies uncut. Very few cities over here carry it on cable, which is too bad.


And I totally agree on W33BY... nothing worth watching! It even interferes with CICO if conditions are right, but foreign signals have no protection rules, so nothing can be done. I'm surprised both the FCC and CRTC approved the move to 33 (they were on 68 about 10 years ago). Since it's a class A station, my guess is they'll flashcut to digital on that same channel by the time the LPTV deadline rolls around.

I remember when it was "UHF 68 Hamtramck"... had nothing then, has nothing now...

I'm glad i'm not the only one that's annoyed by the adjacent-channel interference between W33BY and TVO (our provincial equivalent to PBS).... TVO has great programming that i WISH would air in HD. the static where i am due to interference from W33BY is horrible. Add in WPXD reaching here most of the time, it's like getting beaten up on two fronts.

you get CFTV-TV from leamington? awesome! I wish i could... too much multipath x.x

I heard the FCC is considering putting 2012 as the LPTV/Class-A TV deadline as 2012, but whether or not this goes through is up in the air.

CKCO has nothing worth watching. It's basically "ABC Kitchener"... and 60 is just a 5.8 kW repeater of the main signal on 16 to serve Windsor and Tecumseh. CHWI-TV has nothing worth watching aside from its news (which is actually very good).
I've noticed most of the detroit digitals operate around 41-45 without interfereing (with WWJ-DT 44 being wedged between WTVS-DT 43 and WDIV-DT 45...perhaps this'll fix it?).

I wish it were somehow possible for me to recieve both CHCH-TV-2 *and* WLAJ-DT 51 (used to pick it up on 53, but that's technically impossible now with both on 51).

you know me.. half-way between the Bridge and downtown detroit, on the windsor side, surrounded by apartment buildings in an old 2-floor house.

CFTV is a very rare occurance. I don't it on a regular basis at all.

I used to live near Warren, and could get CKCO with an outdoor antenna. This was back when Sarnia actually had their own news and some programming. I could also get 29 and even CHCH out of London but with poor reception.


I've heard 2012 as well, but I could see pushing it back. Many of these small stations can't afford the switch right now. I can't imagine W33BY having the cash to do much of anything. WUDT is another one- though when Daystar takes over, they may actually build channel 8. Can you get WLPC at all?


One of our drivers lives between Windsor and Amherstburg and we were talking about DTV in general recently. I told him to get an antenna if you want the best picture possible. We also talked about Canadian OTA TV. Other than TVO, he doesn't watch it, perfering the Detroit stations.

WPXD doesn't do anything to CICO near me, because they're in opposite directions. If they do move to 50, that should help you there. Not sure what that would do to WNWO, but I don't think anything major.

I know that section of Windsor a little bit (though I usually took the tunnel), but I haven't been over in a few years, and unless I get a passport, won't be over anytime soon. Too bad- always met nice people over there.

WLPC-LP on 26 from the Cadillac Building? my god, that's SO WEAK! it has ONE MEASELY WATT of power. I BARELY recieve it and i'm only 2 miles or so from it. Sometimes it's static and all i can make out are shapes, and sometimes, i actually can watch it, but usually, it's not worth trying to pick up, even though my antenna's aimed RIGHT at it.

I have the same sentiment as your friend, only add the CBC for me (i always liked the CBC).

My ideal dream is for WPXD-DT to move to 50 and being able to recieve both it and WNWO-DT with a powerful 25-foot mast with an antenna on top (despite WNWO-DT's null towards us).

We're always nice and welcoming to people, i've gotten that same sentiment from people in Detroit. Dunno why people say detroit is like a decent into hell... sure, it looks run down, but they're really nice to me, anyway.

It's a shame that WUDT-CA will soon switch from Univision to Daystar, as my immigrant friend from Costa Rica sometimes comes over and i turn it on for him. Won't its broadcast on channel 8 interfere with cleveland's WJW-DT? I thought it's better on 23 (if 8's better, move WPXD or CFTV to 23).

Since channel 5 is now opened up in Flint and Cleveland (from WNEM and WEWS leaving for the UHF band), perhaps WUDT or WPXD could move to 4 or 5? (i remmeber when WUDT used to be WBXN "The Box Detroit" on 5... had some GREAT music on it!)

your driver friend is in one of the BEST POSSIBLE LOCATIONS IN CANADA for television reception. he'll get detroit rock solid, toledo rock solid, and even cleveland during the spring and summer. Oh, how i envy people in Amherstburg, Kingsville, and Leamington... they are so lucky!

W33BY-CA converting? yeah, good point. Until i picked them up (back as W68CH), i didn't even know they existed. same with W44AR (now WDWO-CA). I think what the FCC might do is offer tax breaks or assistance for poorer low-power stations to convert to digital, possibly even granting them must-carry status (it's already been tried but didn't recieve the unanimous vote it required to pass...).

Update: W33BY is back up and interfering with CICO-TV-32 again

I believe CHWI-60 is at 32kW erp mostly non-directional but limited to around downtown Detroit area to the NW mostly. I get it almost always but fair quality at best, I'm right on the SE edge of the contour so its just all snow with an indoor antenna. CHWI 16 is at 492kW omni-directional. I get fair to good PQ from CKCO 42 from the north but snow is induced into it frequently from WGGN-DT 71mi due S of me.


WLAJ, WLNS, and WOTV have been appearing frequently recently well after sunset with a little light tropo, WLAJ manages to win the battle with CHCH 51 often. After WSYM Fox47 moved to RF 38 and WADL got off of it, i've seen it many times aswell. WFUM absolutely kills WUAB on 28 especially at night. If WFUM gets their application approved to quadruple their ERP to 500kW I fear I will only see it occasionally or never again.

I can't get WPXD here at all. Only short blips with tropo bring it in. WPXD's planned move to 50 is a win/lose here. I'm betting it WILL be a directional 345kW with a deep null to the SE to protect WEAO so i'll be right in between two ch 50's just like the soon to be two ch 49's WNWO/WDLI. The thick trees don't help either.

I know WPXD would never ever try for a vhf low channel. US vhf digital stations are even already running from vhf-hi due to viewer complaints. I find vhf digital to be best for distance but very easily effected where I am by impulse noise and severe interference by lightning. I hope WTVG/WTOL/WJW stay with vhf. The signal is much more reliable for us most times despite the dropouts due to the interference noted above. WJBK was great on 58. Practically no matter where I pointed the antenna it still came in.. but heavy snow killed it go figure.


CFTV34 really should consider moving vhf ch 4 at low power on CHWI's tower or something. No more interference issues with other ch 34's and much larger signal penetration possibilities. I don't think anyone within 300+ miles is using ch 4 anymore.

WGTE from Toledo is a gem. It's a good thing that people around here can get it fairly well but there are many times when the lake fog/wx kills it as well as the other uhf Toledo channels.

CBET should already be digital! lol This is probably one of the most watched CBC stations including all those watching across the border. They'd most likely prefer a direct flash cut on 9 instead of using at temp UHF channel, same for CICO TVO. CBEFT 54 has plans to blowtorch the county here with a 1000kW! omni transmitter allotment when they go digital (trying to get it as far as central MI are we?), hopefully they will become cheapskates in the end and reconsider a lower erp otherwise that'll be an overload death sentence for those around here that use high gain preamp's for distant US reception.

@RingtailedFox
Not as good as you think down here. Sure there are more channels but to many of them too close together on the same/adj channel imo. At least you get WDIV reliably. Not so for some around here many nights where if just fades away from their directional antenna and WLLA interference. Basically none of the Detroit channels are as reliable as they were in analog due to many factors.

Maybe when CICO 32 gets trashed by W33BY you could try and see if CICO 59 Chatham is available to your east as WLNS got off of 59 and went to 36.

WUDT interference?, yes it will likely interfere. Future WUDT-8 and CBC-9 will crush your chances of ever seeing super weak WJW Cleveland. Probably don't hold out too much hope to get WNWO much either. Unless they magically remove the null and go to 750kW. Yea right IC would never allow that.

other people near me have pulled in WNWO-DT... i don't care if i get WJW or not, since i'm not much of a FOX fan (i like NBC and ABC more).

I tried pulling in CICO-TV-59, but the only thing i got was a continual coverage of a snowstorm in july... in other words, nothing. I doubt its signal reaches past Tilbury.

I heard that WPXD is considering either 4, 20, or 50 to move to, pending IC/CRTC approval, though it might get trashed by toledo's WLMB-DT on 5.

CFTV has several channels it could move to. its position on 34 is problematic as it blocks Univision Cleveland and could cause issues with CBET-DT on 35 (and eventually, CBEFT-DT when it moves there as well).

It's sad that you can't get WPXD where you are. I'm right on the very edge of reception, so it drops out a lot at times.. but when it's there, it's great. Lots of times, CITY-TV-2 on 31 from Woodstock kills it with co-channel interference.

I *love* WGTE-DT! It's the only toledo station i was able to recover after the digital transition, but even then, it comes in only on certain nights, and forget it during the day.

Where's WLLA-DT from?

Regarding the FCC placing channels on the same frequency less than 200 km apart... i think that's intentional, if only to protect brodcast rights in the detroit area, or to hinder reception of American stations in Canada.

if WEAO is on 50, that might kill WPXD's chances of moving to it... what about shutting off W48AV and using THAT frequency (might require WMNT-CA in Toledo to move...)

good news for those that like PBS:

WTVS-DT will be more than doubling its ERP in september... so, that'll be a boost to those wanting to pick up PBS and are on its fringes already.

WLLA is licensed to Kalamazoo... not sure exactly where the transmitter is.

I can't see WPXD taking 48, because WAQP Saginaw is using the frequency. Plus, WMNT being a Class A is not required to move and I don't see them doing so, barring a large cash payment from WPXD. If they move, it will be on 50. Now IF they do move to 50 and put 48 up for sale, I would love to somehow scrape up the cash and buy it. You'd probably have to buy or lease space for a studio, but it could be done.

CBEFT is going for 1000kW? No offense, but that's a total waste, as you won't get more than 2 or 3 viewers in Detroit and Toledo, which will have a great signal. That power would be better used for CICO, which is a hidden gem around here. What are the digital apps for CICO, CHWI, and CIII-22? I don't know the website to look that up (the FCC's database on Canadian stations is way off)

good news for those that like PBS: WTVS-DT will be more than doubling its ERP in september... so, that'll be a boost to those wanting to pick up PBS and are on its fringes already

yee haw, since analog 43 WUAB went off the air (WTVS-HD has an RF of 43) I have enjoyed WTVS-HD most evenings when pointed towards the Detroit market. I can get a decent lock on good tropo evenings of about 75% or a SNR of 23 dB. This should bring it up to the same as WVID-HD 4-1 in reliability, which can peak at 100% on a good tropo evenings.
I watched a quite a bit of Detroit PBS when I was a kid so it is nice to watch when it comes in. Plus it is harder to get WVIZ from Cleveland when I am pointed towards the Cleveland Market. Damn nulls to the North with directional antenna's suck!

Windsor-area Post-transition allotments, August 31, 2011:
CBET-DT 9
CHWI-DT-60: 25
CICO-DT-32: 32
CBEFT-DT 35

Chatham:
CHWI-DT 16
CIII-DT-22: 22
CBLFT-DT-10: 12
CBLN-DT-3: 42
CICA-DT-59: 33

Sarnia
CBLFT-DT-17: 17
CKCO-DT-3: 27
CIII-DT-29: 29
CBLN-DT-2: 34

Source: http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/

Looks like the CRTC and FCC have come to an agreement for WPXD-DT to use 50 from Southfield. They've also recieved approval to converte W48AV to a digital low-power repeater, though it'll be completely within range of WPXD-DT... So far, it looks like it'll be omnidirectional with a coverage range similar to the other detroit locals.

yee haw, since analog 43 WUAB went off the air (WTVS-HD has an RF of 43) I have enjoyed WTVS-HD most evenings when pointed towards the Detroit market. I can get a decent lock on good tropo evenings of about 75% or a SNR of 23 dB. This should bring it up to the same as WVID-HD 4-1 in reliability, which can peak at 100% on a good tropo evenings.
I watched a quite a bit of Detroit PBS when I was a kid so it is nice to watch when it comes in. Plus it is harder to get WVIZ from Cleveland when I am pointed towards the Cleveland Market. Damn nulls to the North with directional antenna's suck!
Does anyone know which OTA US DTV channels from Detroit, Cleveland, or Erie that are using a directional antenna and broadcasting with null towards the north?
Panamark's comments prompted me for the question.

ch25 WVIZ from Cleveland directional (although WVIZ has a relatively low ERP of 150kW)

Thanks

yee haw, since analog 43 WUAB went off the air (WTVS-HD has an RF of 43) I have enjoyed WTVS-HD most evenings when pointed towards the Detroit market. I can get a decent lock on good tropo evenings of about 75% or a SNR of 23 dB. This should bring it up to the same as WVID-HD 4-1 in reliability, which can peak at 100% on a good tropo evenings.
I watched a quite a bit of Detroit PBS when I was a kid so it is nice to watch when it comes in. Plus it is harder to get WVIZ from Cleveland when I am pointed towards the Cleveland Market. Damn nulls to the North with directional antenna's suck!

That is good news, as after I temporarily moved my DIY 4-bay bowtie antenna to the roof last weekend, I was able to pickup WDIV NBC 4-1 & 4-2 with no problem. :)
Too bad I couldn't pickup WXYZ ABC 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 (ERP 770 kW).
I no longer have my antenna on the roof, as I'm building a new 4-bay bowtie using pvc pipe.

According to wikipedia, WTVS 56-1, 56-2, 56-3 ERP to go from 200kW to 600kW in September 2009! Once this happens, hopefully reception of WTVS in London will also be as good.

WDIV (NBC, currently 4-1 & 4-2) is to create another digital subchannel (known as "The .2 Network") - launch date planned for later in 2009. [source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wdiv#Digital_channels]

Does anyone know which OTA US DTV channels from Detroit, Cleveland, or Erie that are using a directional antenna and broadcasting with null towards the north? Panamark's comments prompted me for the question.

WVIZ PBS 25-1 Cleveland - although WVIZ has a relatively low ERP of just 150kW, so this might also prevent reception in London.
WXYZ ABC 7-1 Detroit antenna is directional with a null towards London.

Thanks

WKYC-DT (NBC, Weather Radar on DT2) 17 is also directional, with a large orange attenuator placed on the north side of the transmitter.

that's correct RingtailedFox,
both WKYC and WVIZ (same tower) share this orange pad that's muffs signals towards the north. Even with this in place I do get these station's to come in quite a bit but not for long periods of time. I do like to watch Conan (NBC) 3-1 (11:30 pm time slot) as the signal just stays on long enough to catch it.
If I can't get WVID's signal also, I just switch to the Roger's cable feed.

CICO 59 actually comes in well most times since there is no US station on 59 anymore. No reason to swing all the way around to the northeast to get it already get TVO 32 crystal clear anyway. CBC on 64 is weaker but decent too. There are no blackouts on it being so far from Detroit, so Simpsons and Wheel of Fortune are on it instead of The Hour at 5pm.

Great news about WTVS-DT increasing power. I've known about it for a little bit now... There are large trees very close in front of my antenna in all directions and multipath takes it's toll on weaker/nulled signals so this will be great when it happens.

I believe WLLA is my problem on WDIV during tropo as it killed and replaced it a few months ago in psip on RF 45. Flipping back the next day to WLLA-DT 64-1 it changed instantly back to WDIV-HD 4-1. Most of the time WDIV is just wiped off the map for hrs and hrs. The rest I guess is their directional antenna in my direction. Are they using their new antenna yet? It looks like they are still on the digital aux antenna at a lower height with the deep null still in place. I loose NBC 4-1 right behind WADL-DT in tropo/fog/rain

I hope ION WPXD will use an omni antenna but over at Rabbitears their new allotment is listed as "DA" for directional antenna but who knows yet where the null(s) will face. I picked up WPXD just the other night for a bit when there was a Batman movie on. Wish I could get it as it's now 720p HD. ION has been here one or two nights a week lately ranging from just minutes to up to an hr at best versus almost never when WJW was on RF 31, it pretty much canceled out both channels most times!

Using RF 48 for WPXD would never get approved as someguy23475 mentioned WAPQ using it to the north. There's also a SRC station in Chatham? on 48 to the east that IC would likely complain about needing protecting. RF 20 is used by WFMJ-DT in Y'Town, OH and WTOV-DT in Battle Creek, MI so they won't get that either. 50 is the best bet so far after 19 was shot down.


Does anyone know which OTA US DTV channels from Detroit, Cleveland, or Erie that are using a directional antenna and broadcasting with null towards the north? Panamark's comments prompted me for the question.

ThanksWXYZ's directional antenna is at 1000kw and is not too directional to the northeast there should put quite a bit of power in that direction like WDIV. I have noticed that WXYZ's signal is noticeably weaker after Jun 12 esp some nights and in rain for some reason, maybe their new directional antenna isn't at full height/optimized yet.

Pretty much everything from Cleveland/Erie is directional (some extremely) which sucks since when they were analog WVIZ,WKYC,WEWS,WJW all came in well most times here and now WKYC,WUAB are terrible and WJW is just at 11kw digital CH08 so it is very weak. WEWS is the best by far for most of us being perfectly non-directional. WVIZ-DT Pbs was even better for me before the transition when it was at 10kW non-directional before June 12's 150kW DA!. WOIO 3.5kw is killed by CFPL, I can't even get it here either. WBNX I never got digital or analog but their contour (looks like a figure 8 or peanut) is more favorable to the direct north (London) as it looks like PanaMark does get it a lot at night. It's strange though that at a whooping 1000kW it should be one of the strongest to make it across the lake but it isn't. I only saw it one stinkin time for about 2 mins with an extreme tropo event midday on Jun 15 just enough to take a proof picture.

As for Erie I can't really say. Looks mostly directional away from the lake. There have been a few nights in the last month where I did get WJET 24 and barely WICU 12 for short durations. Seems like Erie is the lone looser weak market for you guys up there.