I really wonder if it makes any difference whether or not the public is informed in advance? The US ran public service announcements ad nauseam for several years before the transition and there were still so many people unprepared that the deadlne had to be extended anyway. Maybe one night Canada should just make the switch with no warning. The audience might be no worse off.

As for TVO and the others, one of my concerns is that only certain large markets have to convert. The rest can stay as is. My question is for how long? Is this country going to find itself in a permanent digital divide for decades to come simply because our rulers haven't the guts to mandate a total change once and for all? Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and pay the upfront costs. In my opinion this is one of those times for TVO, CBC, CTV, Global and all our smaller broadcasters.

The lower power requirements of DTV transmitters will reduce electricity costs overall and the savings will eventually cover the upfront costs.

They may not have "money to burn" but they are in a better financial situation. Also, other than the CBC, the other broadcasters have much fewer transmitters in Ontario (or likely in all of Canada) to upgrade.



I highly doubt if the government gave them enough money to upgrade all 176 transmitters. I am not sure, but it may not have even been enough to upgrade the 24 full power transmitters. Besides, the money was not only for OTA, but also for studio upgrades that will benefit viewers all over the province and not just in one viewing region.
You must not read the financial statements from Canwest. If there anyone on a "tight budget", it's them.

Who said upgrade 176 transmitters?? They only need to upgrade 6.

^^^^
I wonder if there will be some surplus digital transmitters they'll be able to buy cheap, after the other stations have finished converting?

This is absurd.

They are a public broadcaster. If anything, it should be them that be the first to do OTA. What a shame. I don't care if they don't have any money to do it. They're publicly funded, and thus should be making their availability OTA a TOP PRIORITY. We also pay for this through our insanely high taxes, and seeing the service given to an exclusive group who subscribe BDU is beyond infuriating. Hell even SunTV beat them to it.

We should all lobby for at least their Toronto transmitter on 51 to go BEFORE August 2011. That is the least they can do now. Like in the next 3-4 months max. :mad:

This makes me angry, and if anyone else here isn't as angry as I am, there is some serious issue here. Write to your MPPs now people. Now....

Sadly, I'm starting to think the only thing that will make them move is if we threaten their funding directly.

BTW, curious to exactly what shows are in HD? Are any of the british shows like Midsomer HD yet? MMM would love to see some of that in 16:9.
Me too. I have already written to my MPP and cc'd the Minister of Education (she oversees TV Ontario). Their email addresses/phone numbers/constituency offices are easy to find on the internet.

Who said upgrade 176 transmitters?? They only need to upgrade 6.

Correct and they that is what they are planning on doing. My comment was in response to forum members who are complaining that they aren't upgrading all of their transmitters province wide.

Aren't sun tv quitting OTA ?
Maybe they should do a deal with TVO: "Transmitters For Sale: Low Mileage, One Owner from new (or two owners in Toronto)..." :D

Well, as I cc'd TVO in my letter to my MPP and the Minister of Education, I got a response from TVO today. It was a professional letter with a lot of broad statements (one of the salient points mentioned was that only a small fraction receive TVO OTA :rolleyes:), but the bottom line is:

- if you want TVO HD now or any time soon, call Rogers :mad:
- there was no evidence presented that a plan exists to get any of the 6 mandatory cities up on digital by the end of next August.

I'm left even more convinced the 6 TVO cities are in the same boat as the CBC 2012 cities/cities with CBC repeaters.

TVO has Twitter & Facebook pages. It's time for "Digital Home Nation" to start a campaign!!!! Post your questions and comments on their respective social media sites:

http://www.facebook.com/tvontario
http://twitter.com/tvo

It troubles me that TVO has made a significant investment in upgrading their facilities to HD, yet only a small percentage of people (who have Rogers exclusively) are able to actually take advantage of it. Not everyone has access to Rogers Cable.

- there was no evidence presented that a plan exists to get any of the 6 mandatory cities up on digital by the end of next August.

I'm left even more convinced the 6 TVO cities are in the same boat as the CBC 2012 cities/cities with CBC repeaters.

Yet when you go back to post #78 (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1119377#post1119377), a letter from TVO says:

We will be converting our transmission equipment in the mandatory markets outlined by the CRTC (those with populations greater than 300,000, the National Capital Region and communities with multiple originating stations) by the required date of August 31, 2011.

I have written to TVO and received the same form letter response.

I no longer have cable or satellite and have no intention of resubscribing just to get TVO. If they do not go ahead with their OTA plans, I will start peppering my MPP to stop giving my tax dollars to a service that I can not benefit from.

Thanks HWP.

I wonder where this 10% OTA number comes from.

Early this year I started experimenting with OTA, now I am totally BDU free.

I can't be the only one.

I wonder where this 10% OTA number comes from

I've often wondered as to what era they have based that on too. Since getting involved with OTA, when driving I've noticed the towers with antennas on them all over the place. Granted, some of these antennas are big ol'Yagi VHF types, but on top are 4-bay and 8-bay bowties, Omni-directionals, and an increasing number of those small, square sharp-shooters. Even in my neighborhood, I'm seeing a increase in antennas being mounted on rooftops. I just don't see that 10% value being realistic anymore.

It doesn't really matter what the real proportion of people using OTA is. It's impossible to measure anyway. The real news is the trend. It is the noticeable shift towards people choosing to either supplement or replace their cable with a over-the-air TV. If we members of this forum can get important or influential people to understand and recognize this trend, then the future of OTA will be more secure. People must be shown the antennas popping-up in their neighbourhoods. People should be aware that antenna and computer stores are selling hundreds of antennas per week in Toronto and elsewhere.

People should be aware that antenna and computer stores are selling hundreds of antennas per week in Toronto and elsewhere.
That's insignificant compared to the millions that subscribe to cable and satellite. When the Canadian government gives Canadians the right to install antennas (which they don't in many areas), mandates digital transmission in all markets (which they have not) and subdivisions start to look like antenna farms (as the once did) then BDUs and the CRTC will take notice.

I am glad to see that TVO has committed to digital conversion in required markets. The best scenario I can see from the CBC is that many markets will go dark for a year or more. They haven't even made a statement regarding the London market.

I feel the trend is significant and newsworthy. The absolute number of OTA people might still be insignificant, but perhaps not for long. It's newsworthy when Wind Mobile reaches 100,000 subscribers even though it's less than 1% of the market. It's news because it is a trend. Even if OTA is only 10% that's still around a million households or more.When the Canadian government gives Canadians the right to install antennas (which they don't in many areas)...What do you mean by that? I'm not clear about what you're talking about there.

All members and readers:

the topic of this thread, pure and simply, is the future of TVOntario in Over The Air broadcasting, particularly in DTV
there are existing threads covering other networks
political comments are not allowed outside of this site's dedicated Politics forum
use our message editor's QUOTE tags to highlight another member's comments or an excerpted portion of an external message to which you are referring
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home reception options are already discussed in extremely detailed threads here, so that is off topic for this thread
keep up the good work with getting a commitment to broadcast in DTV from TVOntario

I wonder where this 10% OTA number comes from.Like many of the other broadcasters, TVO apparently still cites the results of a 2003 survey indicating roughly 8 to 10% of Canadians received their TV broadcasting only via OTA back then. As has been discussed many, many times at this site there is not only the age problem with that data but there is also the unrealistic notion (especially with today's Internet availability) that only those who use OTA exclusively must be counted. In summary:

the data is too old to be useful
the notion of exclusively using OTA is obsolete since people are obviously mixing their TV sources more than ever
therefore the potential pool of OTA viewers is much, much higher than 10%

If they persist in quoting that 10% figure to you please go ahead and raise the points I've just mentioned. :)

This is absolutely outrageous.

How dare they send their digital feed over to BDUs over OTA. TVO was born as an essential OTA service to the people of Ontario. And the audacity for them to reply to us saying "call Rogers" is absurd.

And now just because they are citing some useless outdated survey, and to fill their own pockets, they decide to completely turn their back on us? I'm usually a patient person, but if they are going to do that to us, than I frankly see no reason why we should wait another year just to watch TVO DTV OTA. Simply unfair.

I understand if they are tight financially, but if they had did their research (i.e reviewing salaries/taking hint at the many years they have had to get their butts into gear?!?!), this wouldn't be an issue. Make them suffer for it if we have to, but the only way I see them remedying this is at the very least to put their TO transmitter on before the deadline. Set up an RF51 digital on the CN Tower, use it now, and sell it to CITY when they cut to 19. Otherwise cut funding to TVO, and lose carriage on BDUs.

I guess it's time that we shouldn't be so nice and polite anymore with these people (not to be confused with being outright rude though). Expose to them the harsh reality that awaits them. Get your act together or get out. TVO execs should be ashamed of themselves right now. And frankly if your MPP doesn't want to bother with this tell them they can go look for someone elses' vote in 2011. (Kind of harsh but I'm afraid it might be necessary if it comes to it..)

Sorry for my harsh tone. But alot more of us will have to whine like babies and perhaps resort to harsher threats (i.e funding/losing votes) if we're ever gonna kick this pig. We ALL pay taxes to TVO. Shame on them. Consider this a viewer lost for the meantime.

Ludicrous.

</end of big rant>

They just went the route of least resistance: It's easier (read: cheaper) to provide an HD feed to a BDU than deploy digital OTA HD signals.