: TVOntario & TFO DTV Transition Status (closed)
2011-08-27, 11:52 AM
Tuned into TVO in Ottawa, last night and it was in 1080i. Tuned into TVO here in Belleville, and it's 480i. What? We don't warrent HD down here in the Belleville area? Hell, we don't even get the locals out of Kingston or Deseronto in digital, until next year. CRTC should have demanded that all stations transition on August 31st, not just the big markets.
2011-08-27, 12:02 PM
There's a previous post about another TVO transmitter automatically flipping to digital 480i SD when problems occur with the 1080i feed. Maybe that's what is going on near you as they get it set up and running?
I recall reading that Belleville was not on the list of HD TVO stations.
2011-08-27, 02:30 PM
My location is South London and I primarliy use Satellite as my provider. I did however buy a smaill convertor box for a secondary TV and for back up and because of my dish location I will get easy rain fade on one of Shaws satellites.
I'm only getting an occassional signal lock on TVO or Sun TV's digital signal and I am only 6.4miles from the tower. I am only using an indoor antenna but I thought I would at least get those channels at the distance I am from the Byron tower. Most of the rebroadcasters in London are located there it seems. There is an apartment building next door that is most likely between me and the tower. I am still getting the analog signals at this time with an indoor antenna but virtually nothing on the digital side.
The convertor is an access HD DTA1030D.
If its the building then I suspect I am SOL and probably even the analog signal for CBC when it switches to 23 and powers down will be a problem. So much for the digital conversion for me I guess.
Anyone thoughts one whether its the convertor or the apartment building.
2011-08-27, 02:54 PM
What type of antenna? What type of apartment and how tall?
I found that rabbit ears (amplified with UHF loop) were hit and miss for SunTV and the weaker local stations. It wasn't much better in the attic (finished so more attenuation than normal.) Sticking that outside the attic window improved things considerably. That's when I knew an outside antenna was required. A CM4221 in the attic is OK. Just 5'-10' above the roof makes a big improvement. Right now, I am using an M4 with no reflector at 25' (chimney mount.) It does a great job for Byron, Woodstock (31), Alvinston (51) and also picks up Kitchener (13) with some snow. It cost about $20 to build. It's also very wife and neighbor friendly due to it's small size and low profile.
El Gran Chico
2011-08-27, 03:26 PM
I recall reading that Belleville was not on the list of HD TVO stations.
This was discussed at length a couple hundred posts ago. To re-iterate:
- Toronto, Ottawa have direct 1080i feeds
- Windsor, Chatham, London, Kitchener all have 1080i feeds via microwave with 480i satellite backup (which we see has been used a lot the past 10 days).
- Belleville, Cloyne, Thunder Bay get 480i over satellite
mkenney, see ScaryBob's post 691. I bet if you opened up your Zinwell you'll see SAMSUNG written on the components.
2011-08-27, 03:45 PM
I have an old Gemini 50 set of rabbit ears and it's still half as good as my home-built two-bay antenna. With the home-built I can get a strong signal on TVO but with the rabbit ears I can't get anything. Both are indoors but on a second story floor in a room that faces west. There is a house beside me but most of my trouble is that I'm on the back side of a hill.
I suggest getting a good indoor antenna an checking around the room for "hot spots" that might pick up signals better than other areas. Analogue signals can be picked up with bounce but digital tends to rely more upon LOS. So it's more likely the building between you and the tower causing problems.
2011-08-27, 04:20 PM
ScaryBob the building is a 12 storey apartment so largely concrete. My attenna is an RCA flat panel interior type antenna stating its designed for DTV. I live in a townhouse condo complex (Lockwood Park area) so traditional outside antennas are not allowed. My dish is allowed as it sits below the fenceline in the 'backyard' and gets good line of site for F2 and just for f1R. If the same 'problem' building gets a snow drift on the one corner of the building I lose F1. Found that out this past winter with a couple of storms we had. I had SD before and I was actually shocked that I had any LOS on the satellite when I moved in. I am probably one of the few people here who can get any satellite because of the restrictions of where it can be placed, backyard only and below fence line.
An attic antenna is possible as I would have a place to drop any cable down the area of the vent stack but if its the apartment building than the extra 5 to 10 feet is not going to do me any good.
I wonder how may people in apartments who face the wrong way and have no cable are going to fair then with this transition. They may well lose any reception.
FYI Here is my TVfool link
I may try the home built antennas as its not a huge investment but its interesting in this digital transition that will be a fair number of people who will lose any capability of getting any OTA reception. The government ads might say we are getting rid of the snow but it seems all I may be able to get in the end is digital snow.
2011-08-27, 07:12 PM
12 story buildings have lots of steel and make a total mess of signals due to multipath. Digital signals/tuners are sensitive to multipath interference so it might be a lost cause. I would try the RCA antenna on an upstairs window facing Byron or up in the attic to see how an antenna might work. A good antenna can increase signal strength and reduce multipath to some extent but, with a 12 story building in the way, the signals could be too far gone to recover.
2011-08-27, 08:28 PM
Before about Friday, 32-1 was working properly here albeit in 480i on all tuners. Since then the problems of Aug 18 conversion day have returned where it cannot decode on some boxes, like the Zinwell, as mkenney has described earlier. OTOH, Chatham TVO has been more or less good with 1080i for long periods.
I know little of the inner workings of this, but could TVO just copy the known good PSIP data from CICA and then modify it slightly for use in the trouble TVO station areas/channel?
I bet if you opened up your Zinwell you'll see SAMSUNG written on the components.This box here (zat-970a) has a Sanyo tuner, but next to it there is a small chip that has Samsung on it.
2011-08-27, 10:40 PM
I was able to manually tune in TVO 32.1 on the Sony TV but not the Samsung HD box previously and had both audio and video on the TV. Now I can scan it in on both TV and box but the TV has audio only and the box shows "no signal" even though signal strength is 10 bars. Global (local), Sun (tropo), CHCH (tropo) and all local U.S. stations are working fine on both.
Looks like it's time to copy some of the working stations data and change the names (to protect the innocent).
2011-08-28, 03:25 AM
So far TVO is sucking for Saturday Night at the Movies. 6 movies so far, all were low-def, double-letterboxed rubbish quality. At the very least they need to upscale them first so they broadcast without 50% of the screen being empty pixels.
Conversely, they have been showing lots of HD tv shows and documentaries. It's like having another PBS (which is good).
So far TVO is sucking for Saturday Night at the Movies. 6 movies so far, all were low-def, double-letterboxed rubbish quality. At the very least they need to upscale them first so they broadcast without 50% of the screen being empty pixels.Agreed. Another annoyance has been that all I get as PSIP title is "SATURDAY NIGHT AT THE MOVIES" for all the movies... there is a short description, but no movie titles at all!? :(
Many of TVO programs' PSIP program descriptions are cut off after so many characters as well, only a few lines (it's not an issue with my TV, it displays several pages of long descriptions on some PBS shows).
But I do also agree that the full HD docs have looked great.
2011-08-28, 10:25 AM
TVO probably doesn't have HD rights for the movies they air. (SD and HD rights are sold separately by the studios.) The fat black bars at the sides are horrible though. At least they could zoom the picture at their end for widescreen movies. OTOH, it's possible that they don't have equipment that can do so with studio supplied movies.
2011-08-28, 10:51 AM
It's more likely that they only have SD recordings of the movies. But Saturday Night at the Movies seems wasted in SD.
I've really not been watching the station much simply because they've got kids shows on from the morning until 7pm, at least during the week. Most of the interesting shows aren't on until late night.
2011-08-28, 11:50 AM
Channel 26.1 in Belleville is down. It appears as it's signal source is not there as I'm getting a black screen with 'channel not available', but still getting 90% signal strength when I check it.
2011-08-28, 12:47 PM
I can't complain that SNAM is not in HD because it was almost unwatchable with analog. Maybe the new season will be shown in HD though.
2011-08-28, 09:24 PM
Pissed that the Belleville signal is going to be in 480i. Hope it never comes back. Only thing it's done, has taken away my Albany station WTEN, on RF26, since it arrived.
2011-08-29, 05:55 PM
I am having the same problem. I got a response from TVO this afternoon. Customer Relations is not aware of any issues, but are forwarding it to their technical staff. See how long before it returns.
2011-08-29, 06:05 PM
Any idea if TVO 19-1 is going to make any more changes to their digital transmitter? I find it hard to get up on the escarpment in Beamsville.