Absolutely true. On my TV an analogue signal will always say 0 if it's not working or 25% if it is, regardless of how well it's working. I am certain it is for some reason or another detecting the digital signal at the old analogue allocation because the signal strength is absolutely the same 85% at both 19.0 and 19.1 TVO.

To rephrase: why am I seeing a digital signal at both 19.0 and 19.1?

I sent an Email to TVO inquiring about the status of 1080i and the PSIP info in Windsor and got back the following response, edited for brevity:

...We have been experiencing some technical problems with the conversion in Windsor. Apparently viewers with older converter boxes have been particularly affected. Our attempts to resolve these issues have as-yet been unsuccessful, but our technicians remain committed to finding a solution and hope to do so this week...

Not sure what the "older converter boxes" issue has to do with them not broadcasting in 1080i, but I am encouraged by the "this week" comment.

I sent an Email to TVO inquiring about the status of 1080i and the PSIP info in Windsor and got back the following response, edited for brevity:

...We have been experiencing some technical problems with the conversion in Windsor. Apparently viewers with older converter boxes have been particularly affected. Our attempts to resolve these issues have as-yet been unsuccessful, but our technicians remain committed to finding a solution and hope to do so this week...

Not sure what the "older converter boxes" issue has to do with them not broadcasting in 1080i, but I am encouraged by the "this week" comment.

If the data I saw that mimicked WWJ has anything to do with it, I would imagine they've got some PSIP problems. I'm wondering how well their technicians understand some of the intricacies of digital TV, and given that TVO hasn't run any OTA digital prior to last week, I'm suspecting they don't know that much about it yet.

I would need to get someone to snag some TSReader data on CICO-TV-32 and then I could take a look and maybe figure out what's going on with it, which you or someone else could pass along to the TVO engineering staff. Any volunteers? :)

- Trip

Our technicians are working on getting 1080i to Windsor. We hope to have it up in a few days. Stay tuned! #DTV2011

- Twitter response from TVO posted today.

Happy to now say I have 85% signal on TVO 19.1 but can anyone explain why I also have 85% signal on 19.0?

I was channel surfing and forgot to remove 19.0 so when I got to it I expected it to say no signal. Instead it said audio only (no sound obviously) and when I checked signal, it said 85%
It depends on what your TV is displaying.

There are three things that can be an indicator of digital signal "strength"
1) Signal strength (the absolute power level received)
2) Signal quality (the 'legibility' of the stream)
3) Symbol quality (how accurate the decoded output is to how it's supposed to be - almost always 100% when ATSC is locked)

If your TV is displaying #1, it makes perfect sense.
Many TVs display #2 though, which makes more sense for digital channels.
It doesn't matter if a channel is 10x stronger (by #1 above), if it's full of errors from interference.

I have noticed that CBC is stronger than TVO out this way from CN tower. So if CBC is 38KW what is TVO? Certainly not 100KW!

My DTVPal still lists the station as audio only. Maybe that is what they are referring to.

It would make sense that many people in Windsor have older boxes, since Detroit stations have been easily available for years.

someguy23475, initially, we found the same issue with the CM7000Pal (and other tuners) for London and Paris/Kitchener transmitters. Once they upgraded the signal to 1080i, the issue went away.

My Samsung cannot properly display PSIP for TVO, and now CHCHDT2 RF51 Alviston only registers audio portion. The TV is only 2 years old. I do not accept that the issues are only tuner related. There has to be something Canadian technicians are missing.
Like testing rather than flash cutting in the last day.
I really hope these things get ironed out.

Today TVO 18-1 is broadcasting 480i. Hmmmm

Panamark, I wasn't suggesting the issue was with specific tuners themselves, but rather the issue presents only on certain tuners. Earlier in this thread someone found the culprit in the data stream of the "offending stations"--a setting that shouldn't be there. The issue is definitely on the station side.

28.1 is still 1080i, thank goodness. Hopefully they resolve all technical issues soon.

In London, TVO has it's video stream labelled as DCII. It takes my Samsung TV a long time to get a lock. (CHCH is labelled as MPEG-1 which is also wrong and causes the video decode to fail on the Samsung.)

Same issue with the Samsung.

Fine when 1080i.

TVO 18-1 seems to be bouncing from 480i to 1080i, broadcasting at 480i most of the time so far. :confused:

Yeah. They are having some distribution issues. On twitter they said that 480i is fallback when 1080i fails. They _will_ sort it eventually.

The ATSC digital tv standard allows broadcasters to choose from the following resolutions and aspect ratios:
480i 4:3 aspect (called Standard Definition, or SD)
480i 16:9 aspect
480p 4:3 aspect
480p 16:9 aspect
720p 16:9 aspect
1080i 16:9 aspect
1080p 16:9 aspect (almost no consumer gear gets this yet, so broadcasters have not adopted it much anywhere yet)
These are all digital, regardless of their resolution or aspect. Several posts that are either confusing to readers or factually incorrect have been removed in order to clarify the TVO situation. As stated, they are broadcasting digitally at 1080i but their ATSC gear is set to fall back to 480i (digital SD) if certain technical problems occur during their transition. This has been commonplace in other transitions across Canada.

Is TVO 32.1 out tonight (Fri Aug 26), I am getting a splash screen stating "No Program"

It didn't totally go down, they just turned down the power for a while, I'm guessing for some work on the tower or along those lines.

We have been experiencing some technical problems with the conversion in Windsor. Apparently viewers with older converter boxes have been particularly affected. Our attempts to resolve these issues have as-yet been unsuccessful, but our technicians remain committed to finding a solution and hope to do so this week...I am sure that many people are having problems getting the Winsor TVO 32 signal.

I have 2 different dtv boxes both from 2008.
1. Artec T3A
2. Venturer STB7766G

Starting from Aug 18, I can detect a signal with good strength. But the boxes can't detect a channel.
On Friday 26 Aug they were able to detect the channel and give an ID of TVO but they are still unable to decode it, to give a picture or sound.
They work fine with all the US channels.

Okay odd behavior I have 2 sets with built in tuners and 3 with convertors, the built ins are working but it appears the convertors are not jOn my Zinwell just a splash screen stating "No Program" not to be confused with no signal ,this, it shows int 100- quality 100, could this behavior reflect that with my amp it is an overpowered signal?

Some ATSC chipsets interpret PSIP data in subtly different ways than usual (which is such a shame in the first place that standards were not strict enough) and unfortunately what you are experiencing is due to PSIP data teething problems at TVO. This is being seen in several cases across Canada on different stations/networks as the DTV transition occurs. The reason is that PSIP data generation is not mission-critical to getting a new DTV site up and running - instead it tends to get corrected soon after the other operational and technical concerns are complete.

Keep us up to date with any PSIP-handling changes you might see in the days ahead as the DTV Transition continues.