i can recieve the new tvo station out of kitchener in downtown hamilton.it gets 2.5 bars when my attenea pointed towards toronto.if i point it towards kitchener it comes in at 7 bars

KWorld ATSC TV Stick UB435-Q, audio only at 28(Paris).

Receiving on 24.1. Signal strength is about 4 "bars" on my Samsung plasma. As a comparison to the other Camp Fortune channels CBC is 8-9 bars, SRC 7 and Sun 3.

No EPG info being received, hopefully sometime in the future.
Similar here - strength 68-70 for TVO, 95+ for CBC (on an indoor ground floor antenna). I assume they are both from the same location so I guess TVO is being broadcast at lower power than CBC. Too bad.

Similar here - strength 68-70 for TVO, 95+ for CBC (on an indoor ground floor antenna). I assume they are both from the same location so I guess TVO is being broadcast at lower power than CBC. Too bad.
CBC is around 160 kW peak while TVO is around 100 kW, from the same physical antenna.
Since the transmit antenna has a null to the north, "peak" means the power in the best direction (which is the same for both channels, since they are using the same physical antenna).
Power to the north is MUCH less.

I have a Samsung TV. I had to re-scan and it comes in 18.1 loud and clear.
I did not seem to be able to tune it in directly, but had to re-scan. Probably a issue with the TV..I will have to get out the manual.

Using and old Radio Shack UFO direction Antenna attached to my chimney.

CBC is around 160 kW peak while TVO is around 100 kW, from the same physical antenna.
Since the transmit antenna has a null to the north, "peak" means the power in the best direction (which is the same for both channels, since they are using the same physical antenna).
Power to the north is MUCH less.

Explains why some people are reporting less power on TVO digital, while I'm receiving it at pretty much exact same strength as CBC.

Explains why some people are reporting less power on TVO digital, while I'm receiving it at pretty much exact same strength as CBC.
TVO toronto won't be digital until Thurday morning.

CBC is around 160 kW peak while TVO is around 100 kW, from the same physical antenna.

I believe the discussion is about the CN tower antenna for CBC/TVO erps.

There should not be that much difference between 100Kw and 160Kw. Directional broadcasting antennas, different antenna locations/heights and partial obstructions that vary with frequency could explain some of the differences.

TVO toronto won't be digital until Thurday morning.


I believe the discussion is about the CN tower antenna for CBC/TVO erps.
MalcolmD is in Ottawa, where TVO is already digital on 24.1 as he mentioned. We were discussing the relative received strength of the Ottawa transmitters for CBC and TVO, which both use the same TVO antenna located about halfway up CBC's Ryan Tower at Camp Fortune in Chelsea, QC.

Is CBC Toronto broadcasting at full power yet? They were only at 38kW and I don't know if they're broadcasting that strong lately. It appears that most of the UHF Toronto stations will be about 100kW.

From the chart I get from TVfool.com it appears that TVO will be the strongest digital signal I'll be able to get so it should give me a good indication as to how well the other Toronto stations come in. I've only been able to get CBC and OMNI when the weather allows. The problem I have is that I'm on the back of a hill away from the tower.

There should not be that much difference between 100Kw and 160Kw. Directional broadcasting antennas, different antenna locations/heights and partial obstructions that vary with frequency could explain some of the differences.
CBC and TVO in Ottawa are on adjacent channels from the same physical antenna. As far as I know, their patterns are the same. (There is a case of two UHF channels sharing the same antenna, but having different patterns -- WCAX 22 and WPTZ 14 on Mt Mansfield where WCAX is omni, but WPTZ implements a null in one direction by somehow not getting into one of the panels. Interestingly, this is only implemented for the main antenna, so for the backup omni antenna, WPTZ has to operate at drastically reduced power to protect the nulled direction. But I digress....)


The only other difference between CBC on 25 and TVO on 24 could be different co-channel issues if you were pointing a uhf antenna AWAY from Camp FOrtune in order to receive signals from the other Ottawa tower, and were expecting to get the Camp Fortune signals from the back. Differnetial multipath and distant co-channel interference could then affect one channel more than the other.

That is why audio only:

Program Number: 1 TVO

Stream Type: 0x80 DC-II Video PID 7680 (0x1e00)
MPEG Video: Bitrate 3.770 Mbps Resolution 528 x 480i
MPEG Video: Framerate 29.97 fps Aspect Ratio 4:3 Chroma Format 4:2:0
Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0x83

DC-II = DigiCipher 2

@ota_canuk

Why do you think TVO 19 will be bad? They are expected to have a max ERP of 106kW. Its supposed to be around the same height as the current CBC antenna (and almost the same output ERP). Compare that to the current CBC signal at only 38kW. If you able to get CBC now at that ERP level, TVO shouldn't be an issue. What have you seen that differs?

TVO Toronto is supposed to be over 100,000 watts, so hopefully you'll be ok.
CFTO at 10,800, I have no idea. I'm about 45kms from the CN Tower, so I might be ok with a UHF antenna.

TVO, we'll know better tomorrow. Anyone know when CFTO is transitioning?
Are they all waiting until Aug 31?

@ota_canuk

Why do you think TVO 19 will be bad? They are expected to have a max ERP of 106kW. Its supposed to be around the same height as the current CBC antenna (and almost the same output ERP). Compare that to the current CBC signal at only 38kW. If you able to get CBC now at that ERP level, TVO shouldn't be an issue. What have you seen that differs?

As I said:,... I used to get TVO analog on 28RF with no issues at all, but now since this digital change, I get zip. Hopefully I will still get TVO on 19RF, but with what I've seen with the total loss of TVO 28RF, and the signal reduction of CHCH, I now fear that this Canadian digital transition is geared to rollback all broadcast signal contours significantly.

If I could get strong CHCH analog on 11RF, I should have CHCH digital signal strength on 11RF.

If I could get TVO analog on 28RF, I should have been able to get TVO digital on 28RF. TVO's digital and analog are using the same 28RF frequency, so obviously the erp used for digital is the reason for the significant reduction of the TVO broadcast contour area coverage.

So, whether analog or digtal on VHF or UHF, the new digital erp's are apparently geared to create reductions in the broadcast contour areas.

Here's the questions that people should be asking:

UHF question?
If my antenna could receive the 28RF signal in analog, why does it not receive the same 28RF signal in digital. So, in that respect, why would I think that my antenna is suddenly insufficient?

VHF question:
If my antenna could receive the 11RF signal in analog, why does it not receive the same 11RF signal strength in digital. So, in that respect, again why would I think that my antenna is suddenly insufficient?

ota_canuck those are excellent questions! I'd love the stations owners to answer them.

UHF question?
If my antenna could receive the 28RF signal in analog, why does it not receive the same 28RF signal in digital. So, in that respect, why would I think that my antenna is suddenly insufficient?

VHF question:
If my antenna could receive the 11RF signal in analog, why does it not receive the same 11RF signal strength in digital. So, in that respect, again why would I think that my antenna is suddenly insufficient?

@jgconnor

It appears that most stations are waiting until the 31st but many of them have to. CTV is using what will be SunTV's spot and OMNI is using what will be CityTV's spot. And CTV will be replacing it's analogue spot. The only issue with CTV will be that it's on VHF so one might need a different antenna. But TVO Toronto will be broadcasting at about the same power as CBC, Global and SunTV so it should be a good indicator of strength for those stations. (CityTV could be a whopping 1000kW so there shouldn't be any problem.)

@ota_canuck

If you've got an outdoor antenna you should be fine. It's the indoor rabbit ear antennas that are the problem. But as long as you get a reliable CBC signal now it's doubtful you'll have any trouble with the others. TVO will be about three times the strength.

@jgconnor

(CityTV could be a whopping 1000kW so there shouldn't be any problem.)

CITY-DT will NOT be 1MW. Don't confuse allotments with authorizations.

CTV is using what will be SunTV's spot and OMNI is using what will be CityTV's spot.
Yet more evidence of how the transition was botched by IC. I've also seen an instance where a DT assignment overlapped with an operating analog station in the same market.

CityTV could be a whopping 1000kW so there shouldn't be any problem.
That should never have been authorized either. These high power assignments cause tuner overloading and reception problems for area residents. There is absolutely no need for such a disparate amount of power in any market.

Who's staying up for the TO switch over?