: TVOntario & TFO DTV Transition Status (closed)
2011-08-15, 10:12 PM
Detroit has 43, 44, and 45 in the same general area and it works fine. If the towers are nearby there is no adjacent interference, at least that's what I've been told...
Towers in opposite directions however, I do not know what effect that has.
2011-08-15, 10:18 PM
Is anyone staying up for the TVO switch over? ( back on topic)
2011-08-15, 10:20 PM
I'll be up late, so I imagine I'll keep an eye on the Kitchener (Paris) switch tonight...
2011-08-15, 10:28 PM
I plan on watching Windsor switch over early Thursday morning, if I can stay up that long.
2011-08-15, 10:39 PM
They probably designed the system to carry just about every station in Ontario if necessary.
The CN Tower has multiple antennas for TV, unlike FM which uses a single shared antenna. I expect the biggest problem will be all the techs keeping out of each other's way. ;-)
2011-08-15, 10:48 PM
Is anyone staying up for the TVO switch over? ( back on topic)
Real DHCers never sleep :p I'll probably be watching TVO 28 tonight and then TVO 19 on Thursday. Like someone said in another thread, " it's kinda like christmas" and I'm gonna stay up to meet santa.
2011-08-15, 11:41 PM
Isn't this one of the advantages in going to digital boradcasting - you can have directly adjacent channels without causing interference?
The digital system was designed to work with adjacent channels using modern tuner technology. There are limits on the power ratios of the adjacent channels but I can't recall them from memory.
In the Toronto/Buffalo area there are multiple instances of adjacent channel operation. The CN Tower has transitional assignments on 64, 65 and 66. Toronto and Jamestown had 24,25,26 and 27 adjacent before the US transition. Buffalo was originally assigned 32, 33 and 34 but the station assigned 34 used its original analog channel after the digital transition. The 32/33 combination is notable because viewers in Toronto receive WGRZ with 480 KW on 33 from the southern tier hills about 80 km away while WNLO with 1 megawatt omnidirectional on 32 is just across Lake Ontario on Grand Island. WGRZ is 3 dB lower in transmitter power but much higher in elevation above average terrain. I think that the adjacent channel assignment with high power closer means reception of WGRZ may be lost more frequently during periods of bad cross-lake propagation than would be the case if 32 was vacant.
Other adjacent assignments are 18 DTV Hamilton, 19 analog and 20 DTV Toronto, and 38 DTV and 39 DTV Buffalo, 40 DTV and 41 analog Toronto. The combination works with a mix of analog and digital at transitional power levels. The results with 40 and 41 at post transitional levels may be different. PBS on 43 and Omni on 44 are adjacent DTVs but post transition power for City on 44 will be 6 KW higher (21 KW) and the antenna will be almost 200 metres higher on the CN Tower.
All the existing adjacents seem to work pretty well so I would not anticipate any problems with CBC and TVO as both are shown as operating at approximately 100 KW from the same antenna on the CN Tower. Same power, same antenna is the perfect condition for adjacent channel operation.
2011-08-16, 01:33 AM
28 analogue is gone, and I'm picking up 28-1 here in Stouffville. There's no video or sound, just PSIP. My TV is showing the signal as only one bar though, so maybe there is audio/video for others?
2011-08-16, 01:50 AM
28-1 is coming in great here in waterloo..the TVO Kitchener digital transmitter is up and running!
edit- its showing 480i right now
2011-08-16, 01:54 AM
Maybe I will get to see London's TVO convert even here after all. The atmosphere seems to be bringing London in quite decent.. even the reduced ERP analog CFPL. CH18 is still on in analog with of course poor reception given the distance. Still more than clear enough to see it go off the air.
....and as i was typing this post i was monitoring RF28 and yep just partially decoded 28-1 TVO in SD on and off from KW.
edit: London TVO analog just bit the dust at 1am exactly.
edit2: And now at 105am it's 18-1 TVO in 480i. What happened to "return to air in digital at 6am"?
Here are before and after pics.
How fitting. A program about towers and stuff is on TVO now.
2011-08-16, 02:23 AM
I'm seeing TVO on 18-1 in 480i. Hope it goes HD
2011-08-16, 02:33 AM
They're obviously testing in Kitchener (Paris). My DTVPal thinks it's an audio-only station, and my other tuners just see it in 480i. No PSIP data as yet.
2011-08-16, 02:36 AM
Yep, have 28-1 locked on, Hamilton mountain, 23dB, 5 out of 10 bars on one Samsung, and locked signals on my two media computers.
2011-08-16, 02:52 AM
18-1 in 480i stretched and a lovely green bar on the right side of the picture. Hopefully HD.. soon.
Edit: Looks like their playing with the feed, going to PSA and back then dropping out. Audio is in and out. All with full signal.
2011-08-16, 03:07 AM
I thought that TVO said that most were gonna be SD feeds other than Toronto(IIRC) which would be HD
2011-08-16, 03:15 AM
From what I understood we would be HD via microwave with a satellite backup.
I also receive 28-1 in and out (very low signal) with the same 480i program as London.
2011-08-16, 03:30 AM
One last word about two adjacent ATSC channels emanating from the same location: KOMO Seattle (ABC) on 38 is exactly right smack dab on the same piece of land as KIRO on 39 (CBS), and next door to KOMO on the other side is KING on 48 (NBC). They are all flamethrowers (at or near 1 megawatt) on their own towers, and everything has been working wonderfully for years.
See the aerial shots of the three towers in this video:
Back to TVO transition info. :)
2011-08-16, 03:42 AM
I went and tried both TVO's 18-1 and 28-1 on a zinwell 970A D2A converter box but something about the two TVO streams isn't compatible. The box just says "No program" with the static blue slide the D2A box would use for audio only streams.
At the same time a Samsung LCD seems to have no problems with them both. Hope this doesn't happen down here with the local TVO converting in 48 hrs.
2011-08-16, 04:22 AM
Phil81: Same issue with my CM7000PAL DVR: The tuner is only recognizing 28-1 as an audio-only channel. Hopefully this issue doesn't also occur with Toronto when it switches Thursday.
Strong signal for me on 28-1, as should be expected from a transmitter 11 miles away, and using a 68' tower for my antenna. No PSIP data. 480i only. Looks like I'll be using the Toronto signal--which should be in HD--going forward.
2011-08-16, 05:09 AM
I actually managed to grab 18.1 TVO London tonight--though briefly. One difference I've noted: 18.1 has a "TVO" channel descriptor, and Paris/Kitchener 28.1 does not.
This is the first digital station I've pulled from London (yes, I know there's only two right now), and will go in my log book as a DX entry.