i dont share the toronto ego

arc23, Roger1818 and I were just kidding around. Sometimes jokes don't translate well when made in typed form. We were just playing around with the Toronto-as-centre-of-the-universe stereotype.

Just kidding everybody.

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My bottom line is, TVO is probably doing its best to make the transition OTA in a responsible way. In the USA, public broadcasters requested and received special appropriations to aid in the DTV transition. I don't see how TVO can do this without the same help.

We must just hold TVO's feet to the fire on this until it happens. I'm going to contact my MPP and the Premier about this as well as continue to make sure that TVO and its management understand how OTA DOES fit in to its future as a "media organization" (oh, brother).

Sometimes jokes don't translate well when made in typed form.

Very true.

My bottom line is, TVO is probably doing its best to make the transition OTA in a responsible way.

Also true. Every dollar they spend on infrastructure is one dollar less to spend on programming, meaning poorer quality programming and more repeats.

In the USA, public broadcasters requested and received special appropriations to aid in the DTV transition.

The other thing to remember is PBS was the guinea pig for the ATSC standard and equipment vendors had an invested interest in making sure that trials went well. TVO doesn't have that luxury.

Yes we were joking. Obviously the first they would do is Toronto, but I too hope they do a fair transition for all Ontarians! I'm surprised they have Cloyne and Belleville in their plan.

They should really kill off a few pea shooters in Northen Ontario. Alot of the houses use rooftop antennae anyways, so grabbing them from 60-80km from the major centers shouldn't be a problem (as per my last post describing how I recieved Sault TVO 80km away using rabbit ears).

I'm surprised they have Cloyne and Belleville in their plan.

As argilo says in post #175 (http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1137559#post1137559), it is because the current transmitters in Belleville, Cloyne and Chatham use channels above 51, so the channel number needs to be moved. Given this, TVO has three choices:


Shut down the transmitters,
Stay analog but reconfigure them for a different channel number, or
Switch to DTV (on a different channel number).


Option 1 would be unpopular for viewers in those regions.
Option 2 may not be acceptable to the CRTC. Even if it was, it costs money and you might as well put that money towards option 3.

The fact that they are converting them, indicates that they do want to migrate all their transmitters (at least the high power ones) to DTV eventually, which is promising. We just don't know when it will happen.

bingo! good post! consider how hard it is to get extra money out of the province in these times...money towards TV or towards health care?

There seems to be a lot of pent up aggression in this forum. It's got me all revved up.

1. I'm in the "30 and under crowd" (ironically, I suspect, a dying crowd) when it comes to OTA receptors.
2. In terms of the proportion of TV hours viewed, TVO makes up anywhere from 25-100% of my viewing time on a daily basis.
3. I find the majority of cable / satellite content not worth the cost (I'd rather donate the proceeds to PBS/TVO). Most of the content on TV today is crap.

I take content over format on my list of priorities. It would be great to watch The Agenda with Steve Paikin in HD, but I'd rather they invest prudently in supporting quality content over quality in transmission and wait until necessary. The fuzzy picture isn't great but when a fascinating topic arises, I don't notice the noise.

Besides, since broadcasting is now taking a different approach (on-line content; simulcast and/or archived at www.tvo.org), one can view in formats close to HD at one's leisure on-line.

Can't wait for digital, go on-line. This is part of the framework TVO has been working on towards DTV OTA and has been explicitly published years ago. Transmission has always been the last stage (as it makes sense in restructuring the way content is distributed and prudent in today's tough television market). Cable and satellite broadcasting are competing transmission systems with OTA and their distribution is already established, hence TVO digital on Rogers, etc. is not a great task as is installing ATSC transmitters. Otherwise, wait until next year (or earlier if it so happens).

I take content over format on my list of priorities.

i agree with you here. We have been exclusively OTA since we bought our first TV 15 years ago (though I must confess "trying" cable for 8 months after my first daughter was born). We often find ourselves watching the show we want to watch with a snowy picture when we could watch junk on a channel that is crystal clear. It will be nice when all the channels are digital but i have been using analog long enough that one more year won't kill me.

TVO is a television station. In my opinion, they should be doing everything they can to improve the quality (content and distribution) of this medium...

And, a new transmitter is a one-time (ideally, assuming quality control, lol) investment. (which, after 2011 reduces operating costs in power consumption, mind you)

I'm curious - does anyone know what a transmitter costs?

I'm curious - does anyone know what a transmitter costs?

Plenty of information about the costs is available in this document: Cost Estimate of Digital Television (DTV) Conversion for Canada (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/publications/reports/dtv0903.pdf)

Plenty of information about the costs is available in this document: Cost Estimate of Digital Television (DTV) Conversion for Canada (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/publications/reports/dtv0903.pdf)
I believe the costs there assume flash cutting where some of the analog equipment can be reused. To broadcast in both analog and digital simultaneously costs substantially more (as shown by stations that are changing channel number or, even worse, band).

Yeah, that really only discusses retrofitting analog->digital transmitter, but not the cost of getting a new digital one. (though it probably doesn't make sense for TVO to buy used for only a year, unless they had an agreement for another channel to use the 51 transmitter when they're done with it - it's only a year away (!!))
It quotes TVO's cost of converting existing 19 to digital 19 as 530 000, which doesn't seem like too much considering the power savings (see below)

Interesting, though, is the power consumption figures.
Their overall estimated average is 61% reduction in required electricity to maintain service contours with ATSC. Not bad at all.
Especially for those stations estimated with 91% reduction! :P

Estimates of DTV transition costs (and rebuttal of the CRTC document in Post #210) were discussed at great length in this thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=105619

We won't go there now in this thread. :)

I understand this channel is now available on rogers HD feed. Does that mean Saturday night at the movies in now full HD or is it 4.3..

When can I expect OTA for 19 in HD in the Toronto area or is it restricted to rogers for some reason.

I also have Bell but I will not hold my breath waiting for Bell to get it they are too busy advestising they have most HD channels.


I have scanned the Digital thread on TV Ontario and I can not find an answer but it seems to probelmatic they do not have a transmitter or the money so I ask how does rogers get exclusivity on a government station.

If the movie TVO is broadcasting happens to be in HD, then I'm sure you'll be able to view it in HD on their Rogers' HD channel.

TVO recently provided an update to their OTA digital conversion status on their Facebook page. In summary, they expect to be in compliance with the DTV transition deadline in the markets specified by the CRTC. In addition, they plan to convert their Cloyne and Belleville transmitters to digital as well.

Rogers got access to the TVO HD feed by asking for it, and offering to cover the costs associated to offering it.

Jase that was nice info to know info tx.

I suppose it will not be available until schedule and I presume that will be sometime next year

roger1818;

I always thought TVO was solely provincially funded in Ontario from the provincial tax base and sponsored by some corparations, not privately funded through memberships like the PBS stations.

I always thought TVO was solely provincially funded in Ontario from the provincial tax base and sponsored by some corparations, not privately funded through memberships like the PBS stations.

No, TVO is a registered charity and accepts donations from the general public (see TVO's Donate (http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?donate) page). They even have membership drives occasionally.

No, TVO is a registered charity and accepts donations from the general public (see TVO's Donate (http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?donate) page). They even have membership drives occasionally.

Yup. I used to donate, but have informed them that I won't donate until they are OTA digital.
It sounds a bit petty, but I think they could have converted by now if they had considered it important.

I mentioned earlier that TVO recently provided an update on their digital conversion plans.

In that update, I got the impression that--while they intend to comply with the conversion mandate--they're taking a "wait and see" approach to OTA. Offerings like "Free HD" satellite are coming online in the future, which promise to offer signals free of charge (not including equipment and install) to those outside of major metropolitan areas. And obviously that's a tempting solution for stations: Free distribution to their viewers, and reduced cost to the station.

Personally, I believe the best way to encourage a station to install a digital transmitter (or make any changes) is to ask them. Send them an email. Post on their Facebook and Twitter pages. Call them. Let them know you have an antenna and would like to see them in HD via OTA.

Currently, stations/networks are relying on outdated data that suggests most people are abandoning OTA.