Perhaps they're planning a flash cut, where they shut down the analog transmitters and turn on the digital. This would be the cheapest method, as it avoids the cost of running two transmitters at the same time. So, if this is the case, don't expect anything before next year.

I'm sure that's the case.

It still annoys me.

TVO's analogue pq on Cogeco cable was awful, their analogue pq OTA is better, but not great.

It doesn't make me have any positive feelings towards TVO.
Thank goodness for WNED! I'll keep watching it instead.

http://www.tvo.org/about/StrategicAgenda/TVO_StrategicAgenda2010.pdf

Plus many more interesting reads at the tvo.org website from the CEO of TVO. OTA is not even mentioned. It would seem the focus is on transforming TVO from a broadcaster to a media company. The Internet has more mention than tv broadcasting. The above document has one line about digital broadcasting-

Seek HD distribution from cable and satellite distributors

And another line that caught my eye -

Transition analog transmitter revenues to the digital transmission world

And they don't mean digital OTA, they mean online, podcasts, etc.

--------

http://www.tvo.org/about/StrategicAgenda/Lisa_de_Wilde%20speech_Ramsay_Breakfast_%20May_22_2008.pdf

The CEO considers TVO a specialty channel and compares it to TSN.

TVO does a good job of competing for viewers' attention. We average a weekly audience share of close to 2% in Ontario. This ranks us number two against all the other Canadian specialty channels, second only to TSN. It makes sense because we are in essence a specialty channel, and our specialty is making people think.

[url]It makes sense because we are in essence a specialty channel, and our specialty is making people think.[/i]

She's right. It's making me think about watching PBS! :(

So by your logic Rogers should not offer TVO?

They should tell their customers "It is not right that you have to pay us a few cents a month for TVO since you already pay for it via your taxes. Please put up an antenna if you want to get TVO."

Isn't part of paying for "Basic Cable" paying a fee to your cable company to get a good quality feed of all of your local channels?

I'm not saying that Rogers should not offer TVO. I feel bad for you for having to pay for TVO via taxes, then on top of that charged again for it via subscription fees...doesn't matter if it is a few cents...it all adds up in the end. Turn it the way you want, bottom line, your getting double-dipped. Not saying it doesn't happen everywhere else in our society, but that's got nothing to do with this topic ;).

I just don't agree with conventional TV stations being permitted to offer an HD feed to a BDU, but not OTA.

I just don't agree with conventional TV stations being permitted to offer an HD feed to a BDU, but not OTA.

Well said.


Wayne, Our point isn't against Rogers getting TVO.

Alot of us here aren't anti-cable/pro-OTA. If all of us pay taxes, it should be that both BDU and OTA users get the TVO HD feed at the same time. It's simply not fair that OTA users have to wait longer than Rogers subscribers. Conversely (to back up your statement) it's not fair to deny BDU subscribers from recieving TVO HD over OTA.

The point is that we are all taxpayers, BDU or OTA, thus in all fairness all of us should be entitled to the HD service simultaneously whether it is via BDU or OTA. It's not fair for one to get a piece of the pie first over the other. So TVO's execs are basically justifying that because the majority of taxpayers get TVO with BDU, it's okay to give the rest the shaft for another year (or even denying them completely in some areas)?

I'm sure if things were the other way around, say only 10% of people had BDU access, and OTA got the first cut. I'm sure many BDU users would raise a stink, and frankly given TVO's status as a crown corporation, it's even more important for them to keep with their commitment. We're angry because it simply doesn't sound fair.

Here is my suggestion (and frankly the least they could do).
Test/install RF51 transmitter in Toronto by November/December.
Use it until August.
Sell it to CITY which will need the RF51 transmitter anyway, then flash cut TVO back to RF19. In other markets, this would vary.

Here is my suggestion (and frankly the least they could do).
Test/install RF51 transmitter in Toronto by November/December.
Use it until August.
Sell it to CITY which will need the RF51 transmitter anyway, then flash cut TVO back to RF19. In other markets, this would vary.

Sounds good.

I'm not holding my breath.

If the expense of buying a CH51 transmitter would be extremely high, then I would probably say that TVO is being prudent with their funds (taxpayers' and viewers' money) by not buying and installing a transmitter twice (51 + 19).

If CityTV doesn't want to play ball then TVO would be left holding the bag. If we're are speculating here, then it might make more sense if City bought and installed the equipment and rented it to TVO for a while. Why City would do such a favour for a competing channel, I have no idea. If I have limited channel options OTA and I watch CityTV sometimes, then if City helps TVO go OTA early, City can be sure that my eyes will be in front of their channel somewhat less often.

What I wonder is, how many people living in the GTA haven't yet figured out that the digital transition is happening? Wouldn't any Torontonian have figured out something was going on in 2009 when suddenly they lost all their Buffalo channels? If Grandma and Grandpa just sat there and accepted losing half their channels in June 2009 without making any inquiries, is there any reason why they won't just accept their fate in August 2011?

I've only been OTA since June 2010 so I might be missing something here.

I can understand maybe people living in other places where there are no American signals might be oblivious to the transition, but in Toronto?

Would it be permitted for TVO to flash-cut to digital 19 early? I would guess that most people in Toronto who have always been OTA have made the switch by now.

I still say all of us should be a thorn in TVO's side until they switch. I want to make sure they know about OTA people caring about this. But I'm not going to get too angry if it's about being prudent with taxpayers' dollars. I'm going to be pleasantly persistent with TVO and contact them regularly until they switch.

The point is that we are all taxpayers, BDU or OTA, thus in all fairness all of us should be entitled to the HD service simultaneously whether it is via BDU or OTA. It's not fair for one to get a piece of the pie first over the other. So TVO's execs are basically justifying that because the majority of taxpayers get TVO with BDU, it's okay to give the rest the shaft for another year (or even denying them completely in some areas)?

It is almost impossible for TVO to make the transition fair for all Ontarians. To do so would require that all 176 transmitters be upgraded simultaneously and perfectly time that with providing an HD feed to all BDUs. After all it wouldn't be fair for one viewer in Ontario to receive TVO in HD 5 minutes before another. Even then it wouldn't be fair as I am sure there are some places in Ontario that don't receive TVO, so we had better add a few hundred new transmitters to ensure the province is completely blanketed with signal.

It is almost impossible for TVO to make the transition fair for all Ontarians.
I'm not worried about ALL the viewers in Ontario -- just the ones in Toronto -- me, specifically. :>)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they have to buy two transmitters. These things are digital and can be set for UHF 51 or UHF 19 from the front panel.

There may be other components such as the Antenna that has to be changed but the bulk of the equipment is the same equipment such as the encoders, exciter, transmitter they'll need whether they transmit on 51 or 19. They already have a RF 19 Antenna and City will need one tuned to RF 51 post transition. Surely that's convenient!

To save on electricity they could transmit at a lower power like all the other stations. I receive Global, Sun and City and they are only transmitting at about 3KW right now.

Surely they have the money set aside by now to start the CN Tower transmitter conversion. That's their flag ship station, well it was when they considered themselves a broadcaster and not a new millennium media company. More work done now, means less work next year for the other stations they are allegedly going to convert.

^^^^
Transmitters usually have tuned circuits, to improve efficiency and reduce the possibility of interference. The tuned circuits are made for the frequency to be used. A significant change in frequency may result in replacing some components.

Rogers doesn't do anything out of the goodness of its heart.

And yes, technically, TVO isn't in violation of anything (yet).

Just some dates would quiet this down.

Installation of digital broadcast hardware: yyyy/mm/dd
Low power testing of digital broadcast: yyyy/mm/dd
Full power testing of digital broadcast: yyyy/mm/dd
You are way ahead of yourself. How about:

1) making funding request yyyy/mm/dd
2) funding request approved yyyy/mm/dd
3) order ATSC transmission equipment yyyy/mm/dd
4) take delivery of ATSC transmission equipment yyyy/mm/dd

before your activities even start. From the communication I got from TVO, it is not clear that (1) has even happened yet and for certain (2) has NOT. That's why it's important to not only press TVO, but your MPP and the Minister of Education.

McGuinty could easily say no and TVO would be an OTA dead man walking. (Interesting side note is that the next Ontario Provincial election is scheduled just 36 days after the deadline!)

Anyone have any idea how long (3) and (4) might take? I'm sure they just can't send their chief engineer up to Save and Replay in a van and ask for "6 ATSC transmitters please". :-)

You might also add a task to "config PSIP". Imagine it finally launches and the system time is all screwed up, and the program guide has the same junk the Omni channels and CITY have. :-(

You are way ahead of yourself. How about:

1) making funding request yyyy/mm/dd


Well if they haven't done that, then I can't imagine them meeting the deadline.

You know, what? I've decided that I don't care anymore. My public TV donations are going exclusively to PBS and TVO can pound sand.

The point is that we are all taxpayers, BDU or OTA, thus in all fairness all of us should be entitled to the HD service simultaneously whether it is via BDU or OTA. It's not fair for one to get a piece of the pie first over the other.


It sounds fair to me if Rogers is paying for a service and hence my taxes go down (or not up as fast). I am sure that part of TVOs hast to get digital production is that they resell a lot of content to broadcasters in other countries (Australia, US, and UK). None of them would want to buy analog programming. The CRTC had a digital transition document on this. Digital production was more of a concern as the back catalog would be useless if it was all analog. I am sure that TVO doesn't give this content to PBS or the BBC for free. So what is Rogers offering? Nothing doesn't seem right, but I guess that is just the 'fee for carriage' arguement except that TVO isn't even making the signal publicly available.


Here is my suggestion (and frankly the least they could do).
Test/install RF51 transmitter in Toronto by November/December.
Use it until August.
Sell it to CITY which will need the RF51 transmitter anyway, then flash cut TVO back to RF19. In other markets, this would vary.

This is not going to work. If I was CITY, I would have different specs such as power requirements, etc. How is a warranty transfered, etc.

I'm not worried about ALL the viewers in Ontario -- just the ones in Toronto -- me, specifically. :>)
That is what I thought. All this hot air is Torontonians living up to their reputation. ;)

i dont share the toronto ego

i think the whole DTV transition was slowed because non of the commercial broadcasters do outside of simsub grabs in the big city's , TVO HAS THE BESI analogue channel anyway.

but when they do get going i wish the CRTC would make subchannel use easier, so TVO COULD HAVE SUBCHANNELS to offer an alternate for childrens programming during the day

i wish the CRTC would make subchannel use easier, so TVO COULD HAVE SUBCHANNELS to offer an alternate for childrens programming during the day

I haven't seen any sub channels on the Canadian channels that I get.

What are the CRTC regs with respect to sub-channels?

The topic of sub-channels in Canada has been discussed many times at this site (you can see several threads on the topic in the main OTA Forum) so we won't get into that here.

Regarding TVO specifically, commercial sub-channels would not be allowed by their license. I doubt that they would be able to raise any additional funds by running non-commercial sub-channels as an income source. So... what they get now from viewers is what they can expect to always get.

If TVO wanted additional cash, they could broadcast the Ontario Legislative Assembly on a sub and see if the province would pony up.

It would be a waste of a sub IMHO.