: Shaw pre-empting US Time Shifting Channels
2009-02-22, 08:24 PM
First it was the Superbowl, now it's the Oscars/ Red Carpet. CTV has forced Shaw to run the CTV feed instead of the US feed that we normally get, eg. In Vancouver Channel 205 WXYZD Detroit.
Our monthly cable bills are rising and I for one hate all this low quality Canadian advertising.
2009-02-22, 08:33 PM
It's not CTV that is doing the 'forcing', it's the CRTC. Talk about 'protectionism'. I have to agree that I don't want to pay to watch crappy Canadian programming or advertising. It is just this sort of thing that drives the 'grey market' satellite industry. If the CRTC is going to allow US stations to be broadcast in Canada then we should be allowed to watch them, unaltered. Anyone want to go to Ottawa and fight this?
2009-02-22, 09:44 PM
Interesting... in Winnipeg, channel 205 is showing the ABC feed complete with the low quality WXYZ commercials.
2009-02-22, 09:45 PM
Actually, it's CTV. It's CTV that requests the simsub and it was CTV that filed a complaint with the CRTC when Shaw didn't do it for last year's SuperBowl on time-shifted stations. No cableco (or satco) wants to simsub. It costs them money and risks service glitches. They do it because the networks (CTV/Global) request it and they are compelled by law to comply.
The CRTC does not make the law, it is charged with enforcing the law. Simultaneous substitution is required, when requested by a Canadian network, under Section 42 (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cr/SOR-97-555/bo-ga:l_4-gb:s_42//en#anchorbo-ga:l_4-gb:s_42) of the Broadcasting Distribution Regulations pursuant to the Broadcasting Act. Quite clearly, that legislation requires Shaw to substitute all simultaneous signals regardless of originating station if CTV requests it. They did.
Don't blame Shaw and frankly, don't blame the CRTC. Blame government policy if you disagree with simsubs in general and blame CTV if you're not happy about the requests they make and whether there's a quality drop. While the CRTC makes suggestions about policy, it is up to the government of the day to implement or not. There have been plenty of Liberal and Conservative governments over the years that have not seen fit to amend this Regulation.
2009-02-24, 11:03 AM
he right you know, as a former shaw user. I did have American US Networks from Detroit that are not SimSub but i don't watch it much. now after CTV told the CRTC against Shaw and both *C and Bell about that problem. those days from timeshifted networks from shaw are over and i perfer not to deal with shaw digital or any high cost cable company because of their overpriced rates. I just used Rabbit Ears for 4 TV Channels (CBC, CTV, Global and CBC French).
2009-02-24, 12:37 PM
As I said, it's the CRTC that does the 'forcing', as you point out they are charged with 'enforcing' the law. That's why I said 'does anyone want to go to Ottawa and fight it?' because that's where the laws are made. Thanks for clarifying it for me.
I think you need to check your link too. I got the French side of the site and something about an update notice.
CTV may have made the request but it is the CRTC and Ottawa that are to blame. The CRTC is like the RCMP. Have you ever been pulled over for a traffic violation and just been let go with a warning? One of the biggest problems we have here in Canada is our liberal attitudes toward law. We are way too polite and give everyone the benefit of the doubt and all too often just let things go with a 'warning'. The catch is that this is also one of the things that makes Canada a great country to live in. We are pretty much free to do as we please, as long as we don't bother anyone else and still pay our taxes. The problem comes when some one complains and then the laws are enforced on just one person or group. Laws have to apply equally and to all.
I say CTV should have to show who it is hurting for anyone to watch the original feed of any channel they choose. I know the answer comes in the form of 'lost ad revenue' for CTV. I say show me better programming and ads and I will watch your station. I think we are rapidly approaching the day when the border between our two countries gets disolved and there is just 'one world' that we all live in, at least over here. Technology has created the 'global community'. It's time that political borders catch up.
2009-02-24, 01:05 PM
Sorry for this dumb question, but technically, if you like taping the East feed of shows like Lost, 24, ER, etc, the move to CTV HD is actually a positive one because those aren't being simsubbed with the removal of the CTV Toronto HD feed.
If you are watching live West feeds of the shows, I guess simsubbing does play a role, just like it used to before we all had HD receivers.
Jetranger, you are 100% on the mark with why they simsub and why they added CTV Calgary in HD. My spouse worked in ad sales there for 17 years and they were losing many customers due to PVR's, let alone the missed sim subbing from HD channels.
2009-02-24, 07:24 PM
It's not a dumb question. You are correct except when it comes to truly 'live' events, like the Oscars. There is only the one 'broadcast' so it is easily simsubbed. For regularly scheduled programs, you usually don't see the East feeds subbed. However, I can see the day where someone insists on this too and then you can basically say goodbye to US stations all together. Canadian runs of US shows are still sent 'ahead of time' for airing later in the week. Providers may wind up having to record and sub these for all airings of a given show although I don't think it is a legal requirement just yet. What a nightmare that would be.
2009-02-24, 07:55 PM
There is no way to read into Section 42 that would require a BDU to simsub a distant signal. They are only required to simsub if a local station (complete with an OTA transmitter) is broadcasting the same program. In other words, because Shaw time shifts FOX, they are not obligated for the Rochester feed in Vancouver to sub in Global Ontario. They are required to sub Global BC for the same program when it airs at 9:00 over FOX out of Tacoma.
Because CityTV does not have OTA HD in Vancouver, Shaw is never required to simsub Hell's Kitchen or Chuck in Vancouver on the HD channels, only on the SD ones for the Tacoma/Seattle feeds. Because CityTV has OTA HD in Toronto, these shows are required to be simsubbed when they air simultaneously with the Fox or NBC feeds that Rogers or Bell or *C are carrying. If you have time shifted stations on your Ontario BDU, these shows would not be simsubbed because there isn't a similar program airing at the same time on a local station with OTA.
ps. link fixed ... thanks Jetranger
2009-02-24, 08:24 PM
Thanks for fixing that link, JohnnyCanuck. It's nice to be able to jump right to the appropriate section too.
Like I said, not yet. I won't be surprised if it isn't a question that is brought up sooner rather than later when a review comes around.
Here in Edmonton there is no local CTV HD (allthough I heard they just put one in calgary a week before the superbowl so they could simsub).
None of the shows on the East/West feeds ever seem simsubbed. So I'm guessing if you're in a city where there no local HD station, they don't have to simsub.
Unfortunately they do have SD stations everywhere, so if you only watch SD channels then you're out of luck.
I suppose its only a matter of time before global/ctv put HD stations here... I've gotten two superbowls without simsubs in a row.. hopefully I get a third.
2009-02-26, 01:42 PM
Just a question, anyone think they'll simsub the 2010 Olympic feeds? Say we're watching the opening ceremonies, for Beijing we could watch the CBC or NBC feeds. If they do, that'll royally suck.
2009-02-26, 01:55 PM
No. That is not similar programming. Simsubs only apply where the content is the same (CTV and NBC will have different camera angles, different productions, different on-air personalities, etc).
2009-02-26, 02:12 PM
Good to know, thanks.
2009-02-27, 01:30 AM
It always makes me laugh when 99% of complaints I hear on the phone are about being forced to watch commercials. Once Super Bowl rolls around it's, "How dare you take away my commercials!?!"
But to be fair I've only heard one person complain this year, so not too shabby.
2009-02-27, 08:59 PM
I have been watching all the major American networks in HD for 2 years now(east and west feeds), I live in Edmonton and there doesn't ever seem to be Canadian commercials on those channels. I watched the Superbowl this year on NBC Detroit & last year on FOX Seattle and all of the commercials were US based and 80% of them hilarious. This both between StarChoice and Shaw if that makes any difference which it shouldnt...
2009-02-28, 01:59 AM
I guess the lucky ones are those who live close the US Border and have an OTA HD antenna with decent reception to watch the true US feed. That's what a few did who lived in Chilliwack BC and were able to watch the Superbowl with the US commercials.
2009-02-28, 02:34 AM
This both between StarChoice and Shaw if that makes any difference which it shouldnt...
Which provider you are with makes all the difference in the world, actually. In Edmonton currently, there are no OTA HD transmitters for either CTV or Global (Citytv, E! and A do not have any HD transmitters anywhere). This means that simsubs are not required by CRTC regulations in Edmonton (for HD feeds).
However, if you're with Bell ExpressVu, you will still get simsubs because Bell implements them nationwide, even though they are not required to do so. This is because of the limited flexibility of their current simsub-implementing software/machinery.
SharChoice, however, applies simsubs according to individual postal code, and since you're in Edmonton, their systems would determine that you do not require simsubs for HD channels (although you should be getting simsubs in SD).
Shaw would fall under the same category because they are a cable company, and also implement simsubs by distinct area. This is why you won't receive HD simsubs with them either (though, again, you should receive SD simsubs).
Bottom line: If you want to avoid HD simsubs, avoid Toronto, Vancouver, and Bell ExpressVu. Global and CTV have OTA HD transmitters in those cities, so they are the only places where cable providers will simsub HD US networks. StarChoice, however, does not carry Global Vancouver HD, Global Toronto HD, nor CTV Vancouver HD, so if you are a StarChoice subscriber, you will only ever see an HD simsub if you live in Toronto. And only CTV will be subbed.
If you want to avoid SD simsubs as well, avoid any distinctly populated area and subscribe to StarChoice (or cable, in the off-chance that it's available). Avoiding SD simsubs is more iffy, though, because it's hard to determine for sure whether StarChoice or your cable company will acknowledge that you live far away enough from the nearest CTV/Global/A/E! SD transmitter. In this case you can check your neighbors to see if they get simsubs before subscribing. You can also go OTA to avoid all simsubs if you live near the US border.
2009-02-28, 01:14 PM
Excellent post, very easy to understand. So the day when Regional CTV/Global feeds go HD(i.e. Edmonton), then simsubbing content on US networks will probably occur right? (On the ones that show the same content at a certain time)
I checked the SD Fox Spokane feed last night (Channel 16 in Edmonton on Shaw) and i noticed the Global Edmonton watermark in the bottom right corner...im so glad this is not occuring on HD feeds!:D
2009-02-28, 08:30 PM
I guess that means we'll be free and clear if we watch Eastern feeds in HD, since the times would never match up in a non-Eastern timezone (unless it's the Superbowl).