1) How do I suspend that 18-gauge inside the copper tube?
Your problem. :)
I would make up a few small plastic discs from yogurt container plastic, and glue those into each end of each tube as spacers. Maybe even add a couple more mid-stride, just to help with your next point:
Is centering important, or can it just be anywhere inside?
It has to be completely straight, and dead centre in the cavity, over its entire length. Radio amateurs normally purchase straight brass rod for this purpose, rather than trying to deal with floppy copper.
2) Is "at least" 1/4 wavelength true? (can it be 1/3 wavelength ?)
Dunno what they meant by that. I would use exactly 1/4 wavelength.
3) Do I solder the 2 copper tubes together - all along the length / or at one end / or at both ends ???
The outsides of each 1/4 wave tube should be bonded together electrically. Best is to have them side-by-side. Some tape to tie them together, and a small blob of solder at each end will electrically connect them, as shown on page 15 of that document. :)

Hey folks, I am not well versed in OTA signal tech etc but just looking to get the most of my antenna system which I am finally putting up this week.

How do I know what balun to use? I have two Gray Hovermans joined in the middle with the balun coming off and going into my pre-amp. Well at least it will be by weeks end.

Any help is greatly apprciated.

Thanks

Chris

Hey folks, I am not well versed in OTA signal tech etc but just looking to get the most of my antenna system which I am finally putting up this week.

How do I know what balun to use? I have two Gray Hovermans joined in the middle with the balun coming off and going into my pre-amp. Well at least it will be by weeks end.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

there's a whole thread in this forum devoted to discussing baluns!

I have two Gray Hovermans joined in the middle with the balun coming off and going into my pre-amp. Well at least it will be by weeks end.

see the threads discussing the hacking of the 4221HDs: you may (or may not) get better results using 2 baluns and joining after the baluns

Thanks for the reply ppauper.

I was searching through that thread but did not find what I was looking for. Mostly I read through debates regarding the performance of different baluns, along with tech that was way beyond my comprehension.

I will check out the threads on the 4221HDs and see what I can find.

Thanks again

Chris

The discussion on baluns is important as it is one of the most important pieces of your puzzle. If you're looking for a simple answer, based on what you've provided you need a typical 4:1 balun (will likely be called a "matching TV transformer"). If you want a good quality commercial balun, then Channel master and Winegard ones seem to offer the lowest loss option. If you are the do-it-yourself type, you can make a virtually no-loss coax loop balun yourself with the information provided in the balun thread. I am assuming that you have your GH's connected with properly spaced phasing lines. Good luck with it!

Hey all.

Thought I'd try the Winegard TV-2900 balun in place of my Channel Master baluns, so I ordered 4 online. Friday the doorbell rings and my package has arrived, but when I opened the package there were 4 Magnavox M61009 Baluns inside. I contacted the company and they told me the following is in their terms and conditions
"We reserve the right to substitute any product or manufacturer for one of equal or greater quality".
Yet even on there own website the Winegard Baluns are priced at $2.08 and the Magnavox at $0.69. They also go on to say the following
“The baluns we received from Winegard are NOT a quality balun, and as such we will no longer carry them.
The Magnavox baluns we substituted on your order
are actually a better quality balun than the baluns by Winegard... although
if you want a very high quality balun, the best we've found and do currently
have in stock is the Channel Master 94444 :
I don't want to get in trouble so I'm going to leave out the site name for now you are welcome to P.M me if you want to know, but rest assured they are not a site sponsor.

The worst part is I payed $ 18.46 us for shipping.

And Philips "Outdoor" Balun was actually MEASURED to have a very low 0.5 dB loss from Ch2-69.

Chudsmith, I believe those baluns are actually aka the Philips outdoor balun (PH61009). If so, you may be in luck. They have a reported measured loss of 0.5 dB, but there is conflicting info on this (ie that this loss is only at VHF and that UHF loss is HUGE). Maybe you can clear this up for us and see how they fare!

Hey Zapperman

The Philips outdoor balun looks identical to the Magnavox baluns I have here but I won’t be trying them for a while as I lodged a complaint through paypal and I might have to return them.

They say they’re not going to carry the Winegard anymore yet It’s still listed for sale on their site.

I was hoping to install the new Baluns this weekend when I mount my new antenna. I got my hands on a pair of original 4221’s and combined them to make a 4228 which I’m going to stack with my original 4228.

johnrmckee measured about 0.5 dB loss on a pair of Philips Outdoor Baluns he bought at Lowes:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15851345
See separate Network Analyzer output charts for Lo-VHF, Hi-VHF & UHF.

When I measured them back in 2004, they had much higher loss on UHF, so the
hybrid inside must have been changed.....

Unfortunately they're next to impossible to find in stores (Lowes now carries a different brand).

if you search for "philips outdoor matching transformer" at shopwiki.com, you get a couple of suppliers

Is the Channel Master balun that's sold on SaveAndReplay any good? I'm thinking of getting one of those instead of going through the trouble of making my own coax-loop balun with all the spare RG59 cable I have lying around.

Hey all.

So PayPal Investigated my dispute over the Baluns and here’s their finding.Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.I installed the Magnazox M61009 Baluns on my very recently setup twin 4228’s and so far They seem to be good. It’s hard to tell for sure as my signal strength has been all over the Place today but so far everything is a little higher 3 – 5%. I will check it over the next couple of Days to see if it averages higher.

this looks to be a 1:1 balun for TV

http://www.lincrad.co.nz/productorder.php?product_id=73&sub_cid=4&cat_name=%20Accessories&sub_cat_name=02%20%20Baluns

although scant details are given
Anyone have any thoughts on this balun or had previous experience with this manufacturer ?

I emailed the manufacturer from the lincrad website asking for specs and got an email back saying they didn't have any :confused:

:) I tried the Tin Lee mt37x . It seems to me to be slightly better than the channel master baluns I was using . I now get a picture lock at 60% signal strength as opposed to before at 64% on my Pansat reciever. Zip code 11776!

johnrmckee measured about 0.5 dB loss on a pair of Philips Outdoor Baluns he bought at Lowes:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15851345.
just to be clear:
the philips outdoor baluns are better than the winegard tv-2900 which was the flavor of the month last month ?

Jury's out on that one, ppauper. I think we need some head to head comparisons. Holl_ands measured the Philips balun to have a loss in the UHF band ranging from 3-4.7 dB back in 2004, but the newer test by johnrmckee (0.5 dB loss) seems to be the accepted number. I haven't seen any results for the TV2900 one yet. Chudsmith's results may be good if he can compare to some other known baluns...even if just general observations. Chudsmith?

Me, I'm sticking with these ugly ones which, for my purposes,far outperformed anything I've tried (including CM, Philips Indoor and an HD outdoor one)...

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/picture.php?albumid=314&pictureid=1234

Hey guys so far the Magnavox M61009 Baluns have been performing quite well. I don’t know how to test them for their specific losses so it’s just like zapperman said, general observation.

I noticed a slight increase ( 3 % ) in my signal strength after I installed them but like I said earlier the weather was pretty erratic yesterday.

My signal strength has remained generally good since yesterday, at least equal to the Channel Master Baluns I replaced.

I’m going to leave the Magnavox Baluns up as I much prefer the twin lead connection to the Channel Master wiring connections. I had an issue a few weeks ago where after moving my antenna I lost my City TV signal completely and ultimately found that by moving the Channel master Balun wires the signal was restored. I think I prefer removing that variable so I’m going to stick with the Magnavox Baluns.

On a separate note I tried making a Coax Balun tuned to 473mhz a while back and it absolutely gave me a 5% boost to Fox. Problem was I totally lost other stations up around 700 mhz. My stations start at 473mhz and go at least to 707mhz. I don’t think they are a good option for me. Unless you think I made the Coax Balun wrong?

I've read through most of this thread with considerable interest.
I'm located in Kitchener, ON (bottom of Chicopee Hill, thankfully not having to go THROUGH the hill to see Toronto!) and am primarily interested in hitting the CN Tower (53 miles as the crow flies, signal strength from tvfool suggesting -83dBm for CBC to -108dBm for Omni). I'm able to pick up Stoney Creek (CHCH) almost without aiming. These are all ATSC stations, which is what I'm interested in.

With an ANT-2109 and a CM-7777 I can get CBC on a good night from inside, but it takes a bit of screwing around. I'm at this point suspecting a cheap-ass balun in the antenna so I was going to try the coax loop, but I had a quick question.

I'm interested in all 5 transmitters off the CN Tower, but the channel range is wide (20 (5.1) for CBC, to 64 (47.1) for CFMT). Should I be selecting the balun frequency for the middle of the range, or should I be aiming a little more toward the frequency of the lower-power transmitters? mlord seems to suggest that the loss across the entire UHF band is only 0.5dB for this type of balun, so I'm thinking I should probably use the frequency of the weakest transmitter as my balun frequency.

tvfool also seems to suggest my noise margin is *better* if I have the antenna lower. (12.1dB for 10' AGL, 10.1dB for 30' AGL) This seems very weird, but does it have anything to do with my primary reception being double-edge diffraction rather than LOS?

On a good night I'm picking up WGRZ and WKBW from Buffalo, so I think once I have this thing either in the attic or on the roof things will be pretty stable. Does anyone have any suggestions whcih would help improve the stability of reception?