Stacking, Ganging, Combining TV Antennas - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #46 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-11-29, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stampeder View Post
Hmmm... just to confirm, you did all the steps in Post #2 of this thread?
Yessir, everything in post #2 and everything in post#16 of the FAQ. Not a shred of difference from when I had just a single 4228.
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post #47 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-11-29, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stampeder
3. You don't need to connect the reflectors, but if you want to you need to make sure it is with non-metallic material and something that will not degrade in the light and the weather.
Stampeder I know you wrote this in regards to stacking antennas. I am not sure I have this right?

If you looking at a “single” 8 bay CM4228 it has two reflectors are you referring to them? If so why does it have to be non-metallic material? Wouldn’t full continuous screen improve the Mid VHF band? Has anyone actually tested the CM4228 with and without the screens (electrically wired) joined together to see if there is a gain in performance?

Why did CM use two separate screens? Could it be they just joined two 4221 for ease of production? Maybe one single continuous screen would perform better?

Thanks
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post #48 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-11-30, 10:53 PM
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Additional Stacking references found here:
http://www.kyes.com/antenna/stacking.html

and a couple from Cebik's website, incl stacking separation effects:
http://www.cebik.com/content/a10/yagi/stacksup.html
http://www.cebik.com/content/a10/vhf/2mstack.html
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post #49 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-01, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl ands
and a couple from Cebik's website, incl stacking separation effects:
http://www.cebik.com/content/a10/yagi/stacksup.html
http://www.cebik.com/content/a10/vhf/2mstack.html
Note: a userid+password is required -- those pages require sign-up before they can be viewed.
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post #50 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-01, 11:28 AM
 
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Combining 2 Antennas: Is it possible?

I installed a Channel Master 4228 with a 0068 Pre-amp last year at my brothers place.

We now want to install a Channel 13 specific antenna to tune into digital 13 (ABC). We need a Channel 13 specific because in the Montreal market channel 12 interferes and ABC is very low powered.

Basically, what do I need to join the 2 antennas before the pre-amp?

The 0068 is a UHF antenna. Would channel 13 be ok on that amp or would I need a VHF amp as well?

Any help would be appreciated.
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post #51 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-01, 11:35 AM
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Hi Poncho, see Post #16 in the OTA FAQ because I've added lots of new info on combining antennas. There is a list of devices you should use:
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post #52 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-01, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Note: a userid+password is required -- those pages require sign-up before they can be viewed.
Yeah, its free, but they spam your email a little with ads. Not bad though, compared to other websites.

Another good link for stacking: http://www.kyes.com/antenna/stackluge.html

My builds/plans (not the latest models) are located here.
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post #53 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-01, 10:20 PM
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joining 2 antennas for different directions

How far apart should UHF (4221s) antennas be placed to receive signals from different locations? Is there such a set up/hardware for a manual rotor set up(going outside to physically adjust antenna direction) for outdoor antennas? Also, I've heard that if you can receive analogue signals from a particular location/transmitter, you should be able to (and probably easier) receive the digital signal from same location as well. Do digital signals carry further than analogue signals? (Maybe should be in FAQ thread, but I checked it and couldn't find answers, might of missed them..., thank you stampeder.)
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post #54 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-01, 10:34 PM
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That also is in Post #16, and the answer is minimum 25". Also you cannot be sure that getting an analogue station means you will get a digital. If you look at sites that list stations be sure to check the station's ERP (Effective Radiated Power) and compare the numbers. You'll begin to see a pattern of which stations have the power to reach you and which don't.
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post #55 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-02, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99semaj
Well, I cut a 1.25" off one of the cables, making them identical length, but it made no difference
in my case, when I first connect my 4228's together, the cables I had at hand were about 2 or 3 inches different and I got a little bit of multipath (slightly out of phase) which went away with identical cables, but it didn't change the strength

Last edited by stampeder; 2008-12-02 at 12:43 PM. Reason: quoting fixed
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post #56 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-02, 10:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99semaj
everything in post #2 and everything in post#16 of the FAQ. Not a shred of difference from when I had just a single 4228
have you tried *both* separately just to make sure there isn't a bad balun or something ?
meaning unhook each in turn from the combiner

In my case, there's a clear difference between the 2 combined and each separately, but only on 2 channels from 50-60 miles away (CTV, 42 and Global 29 from Sarnia which I'm getting in London) -- there's a little snow when I use just one antenna and the snow's gone when both are used.
However, for the US channels I really want to get (100 miles away in Detroit) there's little difference

If anyone's got the answer, I'd like to know !

Last edited by stampeder; 2008-12-02 at 12:45 PM.
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post #57 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-02, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggy
Wouldn’t full continuous screen improve the Mid VHF band? Has anyone actually tested the CM4228 with and without the screens (electrically wired) joined together to see if there is a gain in performance?
Touching the reflector screens is what is required to stack two identical bowtie reflector antennas. What I'm advising is that when you have both antennas mounted on the same pole and their screens are touching, you won't need to attach the screens physically with any sort of clamps or ties. If you have a worry about wind or snow load, you can attach them but make sure the clamps or ties or tape or whatever are non-metallic, such as vinyl electricials tape. Plastic ties will break down in sunlight over time and snap.

Personally I've never felt the need to attach the reflectors if both antennas are securely mounted.
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post #58 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-04, 03:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stampeder
Personally I've never felt the need to attach the reflectors if both antennas are securely mounted.
Hi stampeder,

Thanks for your response, I guess I didn't make myself clear and maybe I should have posted my question in another thread. I am not really talking about stacking antennas. When I read your comments on tying the screens together, it reminded me of some questions I had regarding the CM4228.

I am referring to the “single” 8 bay CM4228, as you know it composed of 4 + 4 bow ties with two reflectors. My question is wouldn’t a full continuous screen improve the Mid VHF band? Has anyone actually tested the CM4228 with and without the screens (electrically wired) joined together to see if there is a gain in performance? If they have how did they electrically connect them together? As you know the reflectors or coated with some kind of weather resistant paint.

If a full screen is better I wonder why did CM use two separate screens? Could it be they just joined two 4221 for ease of production? Maybe one single continuous screen would perform better? I heard that CM actually produced a CM4228A is that one with a full reflector screen?

Maybe you could shine some light on my questions?

Thanks
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post #59 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-04, 06:23 PM
 
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I thought the original 4228 was one continuous reflector ?(unless you are talking about the new CM4228HD)?
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post #60 of 1264 (permalink) Old 2008-12-04, 07:53 PM
 
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Quote:
I thought the original 4228 was one continuous reflector?
No I am not talking about the new CM4228HD. The original CM4228 reflector is composed of two separate screens. Several others have bound the two screens together to attempt to improve the overall performance of the CM4228, but I haven't seen or heard of any results. I was hoping stampeder might shine some light on this?
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