Splitters, Attenuators, Filters, Diplexers, Other Signal Gear - Page 116 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #1726 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-02-27, 01:39 PM
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Hello, Sleeping Wolf

Here is a tvfool report based on Upper Middle/Walkers; you have to click on Pending to see CBLT:
TV Fool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeping Wolf View Post
I had tried a Pre-Amplifier on old setup , and lost all channels. It had worked somewhat when using the antenna indoors It also was made by Digicrap.
If it was the ANT1005, it was probably overloaded by the Hamilton transmitters.
Gain: VHF: 26dB UHF: 30dB
Noise figure: ?5.0dB
Power Supply: AC110-120V ac 60HZ Output: 9V dc 100mA
Quote:
I don't think that's what I want now anyway. Just a good splitter, that will either send full signal equally or maybe boost a bit but not at cost of losing anything else either.
There isn't that much difference between brands of splitters. The loss with a 2-way will be about 3.5 dB; a 4-way, 7 dB. If the bedroom TV is OK when the antenna is connected directly to it without a splitter, then a little boost might help.

I suggest a Channel Master 3412 distribution amp, which has two outputs. If the kitchen TV is further away, connect it to one of the outputs and connect the other output to a 2-way splitter for the closer TVs. If all 3 coax runs are about the same length, use a CM3414 that has 4 outputs.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
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post #1727 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-02-27, 04:06 PM
 
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You still need to provide additional information, specifically a link to your TVFool plot and you need to indicated the aiming direction of your antenna. Is it the C2 or the C2V (With VHF dipole)? What is out in front of the antenna (trees, buildings, etc)?

Spending money on a splitter with a higher frequency rating isn't money spent for any benefit, TV reception doesn't use anything above 698 MHz.

It would also hep tremendously if you specifically identified the amplifier you did use. Sometimes, amps are horribly matched to a given location and cause new problems. This isn't an amplifier problem, it's an amplifier selection problem. Sometimes it is due to being hooked up wrong, especially if you plant a splitter between the amp and its power source.
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post #1728 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-02-27, 08:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Hello, Sleeping Wolf

Here is a tvfool report based on Upper Middle/Walkers; you have to click on Pending to see CBLT:
TV Fool
If it was the ANT1005, it was probably overloaded by the Hamilton transmitters.
Gain: VHF: 26dB UHF: 30dB
Noise figure: ?5.0dB
Power Supply: AC110-120V ac 60HZ Output: 9V dc 100mA
There isn't that much difference between brands of splitters. The loss with a 2-way will be about 3.5 dB; a 4-way, 7 dB. If the bedroom TV is OK when the antenna is connected directly to it without a splitter, then a little boost might help.

I suggest a Channel Master 3412 distribution amp, which has two outputs. If the kitchen TV is further away, connect it to one of the outputs and connect the other output to a 2-way splitter for the closer TVs. If all 3 coax runs are about the same length, use a CM3414 that has 4 outputs.
Yes, it was the ANT1005 , and the TV Fool report linked there is identical to the ones I have prepared in the past. I wish I knew more about what the reports say, still new to this and have a bunch to learn. Is there an amplifier that could potentially get me more of the US channels and not be overpowered by local transmitters ?

The direction the Antenna faces is 330° NW. That's the only spot and direction that seems to get me all the channels I do get , in well. There are 3 storey buildings in the way. But is more open than my unit and my building behind me. I have no south access, and only a partial view of NE - which I thought would give me more signals but got me less.

Yes it is the C2V - with the VHF, which I am enjoying getting CTV now.

I will definitely look into your distribution splitter suggestions, I appreciate the assistance.
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post #1729 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-02-28, 08:04 AM
 
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HI just a couple quick follow up questions regarding the channel master amps.

Would there be any downside to just using a 4 port , over a 2 port with additional splitter as suggested ?

The kitchen TV where I want to feed another line to, is about 25 feet away from where the other 2 lines are.

Also , I have old satellite multi switches and a distribution amp that looks similar from what I recall to this channel master amp. (It's in storage so I can't say for sure , or have a name or specs) but am wondering now if that would do the same sort of job ?

Cord Cutter -> OTA: Clearstream C2V, Channel Master 3414,
Stream -> Apple TV, Chromecasts , Android box.
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post #1730 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-02-28, 10:26 AM
 
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The satellite multiswitches are not going to be useful.

You'd have to get the specific make and model information for the distribution amp before it can be commented on.

The only potential downside to using a splitter with more ports than are needed would be the extra signal insertion loss. If you have plenty of signal, the path loss budget can tolerate the additional insertion loss and reception will be unaffected. However, if your actual reception is right on the edge of failure due to insufficient margin, then adding in the extra loss of the extra splitter may be enough to kick you over the edge of the digital cliff. Ensure that any unused splitter ports are properly terminated to avoid the potential of signal reflections in your cabling that can also take out marginal reception.


Quote:
The direction the Antenna faces is 330° NW.
There is NOTHING that comes from that direction. It sounds like your primary signal paths are blocked and you've found that your available reception is all due to reflected signals from something to your northwest. Such reception is impossible to predict and the data from the TVFool plots is pretty much useless.

The ANT1005 is a lousy choice for your area. It's highly likely to overload, either internally or at your tuners' inputs.
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post #1731 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-02-28, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
The satellite multiswitches are not going to be useful.

You'd have to get the specific make and model information for the distribution amp before it can be commented on.

The only potential downside to using a splitter with more ports than are needed would be the extra signal insertion loss. If you have plenty of signal, the path loss budget can tolerate the additional insertion loss and reception will be unaffected. However, if your actual reception is right on the edge of failure due to insufficient margin, then adding in the extra loss of the extra splitter may be enough to kick you over the edge of the digital cliff. Ensure that any unused splitter ports are properly terminated to avoid the potential of signal reflections in your cabling that can also take out marginal reception.


There is NOTHING that comes from that direction. It sounds like your primary signal paths are blocked and you've found that your available reception is all due to reflected signals from something to your northwest. Such reception is impossible to predict and the data from the TVFool plots is pretty much useless.

The ANT1005 is a lousy choice for your area. It's highly likely to overload, either internally or at your tuners' inputs.
Yes I was actually surprised when I was able to pick up any channels to begin with with my poor location limitations, let alone now receiving 17 of my 21 channels in "good" quality after switching antenna's. Hoping the Channel Master amplifier will take care of the pixelation of the other 4 channels (WIVB, WKBW, Laff & Escape) as well as CFTO on the bedroom set. Even if I don't get the Bufflao channels improving its still a win, and really I don't see myself watching those channels anyway.

Cord Cutter -> OTA: Clearstream C2V, Channel Master 3414,
Stream -> Apple TV, Chromecasts , Android box.
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post #1732 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-03-01, 08:43 AM
 
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I did pick up the Channel Master 3414 yesterday and while it has only 2 lines connected at moment I did terminate the other 2 lines for now and will be adding another line to said kitchen TV soon. The store did not have the 2 line in stock and I just wanted this done.

Results are good. The 7 series of channels from Buffalo (Abc,Laff,Escape) came in clear , and the Pixelation /splotchy result I was getting on CFTO VHF 9.1 on bedroom TV had cleared as well.

WIVB which had been clear for a few days was absent before and after I hooked up the amplifier. But I will scan again when weather seems decent. Given my location and position those channels are just extras and not the reason I did all this.

Thanks for the help, I am sure I will be appearing now and then as I adapt to this new way of TV watching.

Cord Cutter -> OTA: Clearstream C2V, Channel Master 3414,
Stream -> Apple TV, Chromecasts , Android box.
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post #1733 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-04-28, 01:19 PM
 
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Lost Stations - PreAmp Problem?

Hi, I live in Oka just outside Montreal. Since the switch to digital we have been able to pick up several stations from Plattsburgh and Burlington in the US, but about 6 weeks ago most of them have dropped or are not clear. Right now we clearly pick up channel WPTZ 5 (digital 14), but we completely lost WCAX 3 (digital 22) and WCFE 57 (digital 38); WETK 33 (digital 32) and WFFF 44 (digital 43) come in sometimes but usually pixilate. Channel 6 (dig. 21) from Montreal comes in fine.

I have a Channel Master 7777 preamp that's probably 10+ years old, and a 91XG yagi antenna with a rotor. The cable from the preamp to the power supply (CM747) is 100'. The coax output from the power supply goes to an old RCA distribution amp, then to a 3 way splitter, of which only 2 are used, and then a 4' coax to one tv, and about 15' to a second. Both TVs pickup/don't pickup the same channels. I've also tried a CM4228 antenna with the same results for US stations, but I also get digital 12 with this antenna.

Why would some channels drop and not others? Is it possible for one of the amps to selectively fail? Or the coax?

Any suggestions would help. My wife's getting POed.

Thanks
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post #1734 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-04-28, 05:57 PM
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We need to see your TVFool.com Results....after entering your location to get Results, Copy/Paste URL (Weblink) at TOP of Browser into a post on this Thread.

Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #1735 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-04-28, 07:16 PM
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Don, I had a similar problem a few years ago. I bought myself a multimeter for about $20 at CT or HD or some such place. Turned out there was no voltage on the RG6 that went into the pre-amp from the power inserter. Replaced the coax and bingo! Everyone happy again. I also learned a multimeter is also very useful to test pretty much everything from the antenna to the coax input on your tuner. Replaced some less-than ideal-homemade cables and many of my old problems are gone. That multimeter may have been my best OTA purchase (well the attenuators were a pretty good purchase too).

A-D DB4e & CS5, CM 4221 & 7778, TiVo Premiere & Roamio
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post #1736 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-04-28, 09:07 PM
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+1 ^^ for checking the DC power anytime you have a preamp in the system and are having a sudden problem that wasn't there before.
Also about 6 weeks ago is when some serious heavy weather was running through, around here at least. Checking weatherunderground history, and sure enough I see heavy snow and 60 MPH wind gusts around that time in Plattsburgh.
Sometimes water can ingress to your coax cables, balun, etc. Now that spring has sprung it would be a good time to go up top and go through everything.

Curious why you would need a distribution amp on top of an antenna mounted preamp?
A passive splitter should suffice where the downlead enters the house...no?

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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post #1737 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-04-29, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Curious why you would need a distribution amp on top of an antenna mounted preamp?
A passive splitter should suffice where the downlead enters the house...no?
Good question.

An estimated signal report for don_0110 (he hasn't yet posted a tvfool.com report) shows very strong local signals that can cause partial tuner overload making it more difficult to receive the weaker US signals. If you click on Pending in the report, you will see CBFT and CBMT that are even stronger than CFTM.
TV Fool

coordinates used for estimated Oka report:
45.509378, -73.981502

Quote:
an old RCA distribution amp
What model is it, and what is the dB gain?

CBFT -31.1 dBm + 12 dBd ant + 24 dB 7777 + 20 dB RCA DA = +24.9 dBm; preamp and tuner overload when the antenna is aimed at CBFT.

Quote:
My wife's getting POed.
The reality is that the US signals will not be as reliable as the local signals because of non-interference agreements between the US and Canada that make the US signals weaker in Canada as a result the directional antennas of the US transmitters.

Also, the signal enhancement of the US signals from Tropospheric Propagation does not happen all year round.

Quote:
Since the switch to digital we have been able to pick up several stations from Plattsburgh and Burlington in the US, but about 6 weeks ago most of them have dropped or are not clear.
Any trees or other building in the signal path?

Quote:
but we completely lost WCAX 3 (digital 22)
If you click on Pending in your tvfool report, you will see that WCAX has adjacent channel interference from CBMT on real channel 21. CBMT is 37.7 dB stronger than WCAX. Tuners are not designed to reject adjacent channel interference any greater than 33 dB.

The red highlighted "a" next to the WCAX callsign in the report indicates adjacent channel interference.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883

Last edited by rabbit73; 2017-04-29 at 10:43 AM.
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post #1738 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-05-03, 08:00 AM
 
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UHF Quad Bandstop Filter

Can anyone evaluate the performance of the "UHF Quad Bandstop Filter" made by JJ electronics in Slovakia? These filters can be set to attenuate up to four frequencies by 30 dbs. They are currently on sale on e-bay

I am trying to improve reception of weak signals (rf9, rf19,rf20) in virtually the same direction as three very strong signals:

TV Fool
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post #1739 of 1739 (permalink) Old 2017-05-03, 07:20 PM
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Unless they could be aligned / retuned by yourself, I might wait until the new TV spectrum is implemented.
I don't think notching anything in the VHF band is going to help your CH 9. You may get some help notching the Grand Island UHF stations. So you can steer closer to CN tower.
There is really no way to evaluate without having one in your hands though...

chinadog, I am 3 miles SSE from you so I will send you a pm so as not to get off topic.
But if you look at my TVFool compared to yours, the weak signals your looking for are about 5 dB stronger here,
while the strongest signals getting in the way, are slightly weaker here.

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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