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post #1126 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-17, 09:44 PM
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Burlington, ON
Posts: 16
I got my Kitztech low noise amp today. It took 9 business days to arrive via first class mail. $49 (US) with shipping/ exchange it came to $67 CAN.

I have two CM4221s combined, one for TO and one for Buff with two independent runs of coax coming into my house. They are combined just before my tuner. I have an old Radio Shack VHF/UHF power amp with FM trap on my TO antenna all feeding into my DTVPal DVR.

After moving the Kitztech in all imaginable locations in my setup (before/after combiner, with/without Radio Shack amp, amplifying TO/Buff) and adjusting the gain I settled on placing it on my TO antenna line before my combiner.

Still my first impression of the AMP was dissappointment as I hoped it would help pull in weak channels I don't get such as 31.1, 41.1. No such luck. However, for my existing TO channels, across the board I got a net gain in signal strength of about 10 points (e.g without Kitztech amp 66%, with Kitztech amp 76%). I also had a slight gain on my Buffalo channels with many coming in at 100% (usual is 96%).

Last edited by faz68; 2009-07-17 at 10:29 PM.
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post #1127 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-18, 03:42 AM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ancaster (Meadowlands), ON
Posts: 97
Question Overload and Winegard HDP-269?

When I point SE, I hit the Hamilton tower nearby then the Buffalo towers further away in the same line of sight. Should I be using a lower gain preamp like the Winegard HDP-269 as to not overpower the Hamilton signal?... it's worrisome that Panamark had two fail on him, not a reliable product?
Is that the one I need or an alternative?

Last edited by ancaster; 2009-07-18 at 11:14 AM.
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post #1128 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-18, 11:30 AM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beloeil
Posts: 609
Kitztech Amp

I did a full test of Kiztech amplifier. The amp was provided by MLord for testing (Thanks Mark).

I did not test the Famously low power WVNY-DT yet because I have to put up my new mast of 10 feet of my chimney because of the nice weather we are been having here.

But, I did a head to head with the Addison GE ( 6db noise ) amp. I put two GE amps in series to give a gain of 20 dB.

The equipment:

Samsung Plasma TV
CM 4221
Archer Small VHF-UHF combo, the UHF is null because of CM 0549 combiner.
Sanyo 19 LCD TV
Regal 2 way Splitter.
Antennas are pointed at the Mont-Royal.


The two amps were placed just at the output of the combiner outside.

Single output to Samsung TV:

Kitz Tech: on the digital channels; SRC, CBC, WCAX, WPTZ, WCFE and TQS, I noticed a gain of one bar on my signal meter compared to the GE amps. Global 46 was a bit better also. Very small advantage Kitz.

Now with the splitter connector and the Sanyo plus Samsung TV:

The GE amp looses 2 bars on the digital channels and the weak analogues are about 10 % lower. WPTZ at one bar with the GE and 3 bars with the Kitz. Advantage Kitz.

Kitz Tech: No change at all between single load or double load. It looks like a good low noise distribution amp solution.

With the Kitz tech inside the house with 25 feet of coax after the combiner:

The digital channels were weaker 2-3 bars. WPTZ was gone and also CBC. Global 46 CKMI analogue was not affected, same picture.

The WVNY-DT test will be coming soon, it will be a test of the CM 7777, GE amps and Kitz Tech connected to the TivoHD.

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post #1129 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-18, 06:43 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 65
I live in Toronto, with 30 degrees between the CN Tower and the Buffalo transmitters. I'm going to be building a single-bay GH10 antenna. It is going to be aimed at Buffalo since the CN Tower signals are strong enough. I am considering two preamp options:

1) Get a mast-mountable, power-injectable preamp (don't know which one yet) and put it as close as possible to my antenna.


2) Use a kitztech preamp, indoors, after the RG6 has entered my house and travelled 30-35ft from my roof.


Any suggestions as to the better option?
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post #1130 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-18, 09:52 PM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 846

I have my Winegard preamp back in my setup. I have improved my ground for the mast and so far so good. Mind you it has not been over two days.
As I read the literature that came with the preamp, it warns owners of lighting storms. It recommends that the power source be unhooked from the outlet and the coax to the antenna unhooked as a precaution. I have had to do this twice already since it has been back in the loop of things.
I am not taking any chances. Previously I lost both pre amps following storm fronts.
Winegard backs their equipment and I have faith in there products. Please do not fret in hind site of my experience.
The more I think about it the less I feel that overload cost me my pre amps.

roof mounted 35ft UHF Antennas Direct XG91, VHF Delhi VIP 302SR, RC 6292, Tii Coaxial Lightning Surge Protection
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post #1131 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-19, 11:09 AM
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto (St. Clair/Bathurst)
Posts: 471
Very interesting about lightning, PanaMark and perhaps a great relief to those of us with nearby strong stations to learn that the Winegard may by OK, except during electrical storms.

Anybody know if some pre-amps are more susceptible to electrical damage? I am not sure that Winegard, who in an act of good engineering ethics offered to examine your dead units, will be able to tell. Transistors good poof for all kinds of reasons including wee bits of crackling electricity and there may not be any "smoking gun" for Winegard to find.

But even if the low-amplification Winegard is hyper-susceptible, us folks living in the middle of cities shouldn't have much to worry about? Are you in an area where electrical storms are close and personal?

I did some reading about antennas and lightning. Everybody is urged by everybody to ground theirs. It helps to have lotsa ground rods in the sky because that helps drain the electrical activity, not necessarily act as "lightning rods" in the dramatic movie sense. I think cold-water-pipe grounds are "in" and true ground rods are "out" unless your ground retains some moisture all the time, and even then not as reliable as a buried copper pipe. Most houses have grounded outlets these days but prolly better to run a 12-gauge wire directly from the antenna and another directly from a cable splitter. Using a purpose-built grounding gizmo is not as good because it harms the signal whenever you add even passive connections like that.

Earlier and elsewhere I posted a question about whether grounding improves signal reception but got no solid answers.
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post #1132 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-19, 01:00 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beloeil
Posts: 609
WVNY-DT Amplifier Round Up

Ok. I completed my new mast setup consisting of a Delhi chimney mount and a 10 Feet mast that is only 5 feet higher of the upper bracket. I found a sweet spot with a much improved signal then before but still not perfect

I still have the same Delhi 10y13s pointed at Mt. Mansfield.
I broke my Homemade rg-59 balun and also broke my exterioir CM balun.

The Coax is the same; 75 feet cheap Addison generic rg-6.

Tuner is the TivoHD (microtune tuner).

Balun: interior Philips.


GE Amp (6db noise) : 40 % on the signal meter.

CM7777: 53 % on the signal meter.

Kitz Tech: 58 % on the signal meter.

The tests were done in 5 minutes max.

So there you have it, the Kitz is about 5 % better then the CM but the CM was connected also to the 4228, so maybe because it does combine the 2 antennas, you get a lost of 0.5 dB.

You see how the GE amp is crummy with low power signals.

I not sure if the RC amp make a big difference, I could test that one in the near future.

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post #1133 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-19, 05:05 PM
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by intravino View Post
CM7777: 53 % on the signal meter.

Kitz Tech: 58 % on the signal meter.
Okay, so the 1.2dB lower NF of the Kitztech gained about 5 on those numbers (whatever they really mean). The RC pre-amp is only 0.6dB better than the Kitztech, so the best one should expect with it would be around half again as good, or about 61% on the measurement.

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post #1134 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-22, 06:13 PM
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 70
Kitz Tech amp

Well, I've decided to get the Kitz Tech amp in the end. Ordered it last Thursday night, should arrive soon.

I hemmed and hawed about getting a RC pre-amp, but I couldn't decided on which range to get. The wideband version with the upper end of UHF cut off would be perfect, except that many TO stations are in that range, so I'd have to either not use the amp until Aug 2011, or not watch those channels until Aug 2011

So I decided to get the Kitz Tech amp and be done with it already
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post #1135 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 05:29 AM
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 26

It appears there's an error in the PDF. Unless I'm mistaken the chart shows CM0265 as single input and CM0264 as dual.

Last edited by john warfin; 2009-07-23 at 01:17 PM. Reason: make error clearer
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post #1136 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 10:50 AM
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You are mistaken. The 2 in 0264 means two inputs.

So they both have dual inputs. The difference is, the 0264 includes a power supply in the package, whereas the 0265 does not.

The 0265 is intended to be compatible with existing power-over-coax for satellite equipment, so it can share a single coax in from the dish/antenna. Or one can purchase the standard CM power supply for it separately.

When I last bought some of these (one of each), it was cheaper to buy the 0265+psu, than the combined 0264 package.

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post #1137 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 01:16 PM
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 26
Correct. The chart appears to be in error because it lists the CM0265 as having single 300ohm input.

Channel Master CM 0265 300
Channel Master CM 0264 (2) 300
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post #1138 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 01:30 PM
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 26
And the CM0065 was put in with the dual input amps. Looks like CM0265 and CM0065 need to swap places.
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post #1139 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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I've PMed holl_ands so hopefully he has some time to respond about that. Keep in mind the info in Post #1 - his source material was another chart.
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post #1140 of 4206 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 07:49 PM
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Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,687
Spartan Preamp specs are on pg19 in (old) Channel Master TVS Catalog Ed7 (Mar2003):
CM0065 and CM0265 have exactly the SAME specs, except CM0065 has a single VHF/UHF input,
whereas CM0265 has two separate VHF & UHF inputs.

And here's Solid Signal's current (erroneous) "Preamplifier Comparison Chart":

So it looks like a simple typo--CM0065 and CM0265 are reversed.
And since they have same specs, no other changes are needed.

Also note I added a few Preamps that Solid Signal forgot to list....

Could someone modify Post#1 accordingly???
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amplifier , dtv , ota , preamp , signal strength

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