Popularizing OTA DTV In Canada - Page 57 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #841 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-26, 06:14 PM
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transition from SD to HD from 15 years ago.
HD transmission started in the US about 16 years ago but the transition was 8 years ago for the US and 6 years ago in Canada. As already mentioned. the CBC shut down most of their transmitters rather than convert then to ATSC. I don't see much in the way of transition to ATSC3.0 in Canada. It's not like the US where stations need it to keep operating in crowded markets and carry extra services. The only city where ATSC 3.0 might be needed is Toronto. Most other Canadian cities have unused ATSC channels that broadcasters aren't presently using. There is also very little in the way of multiplexing multiple service on one channel in Canada. Outside of Toronto or maybe Vancouver and Montreal, OTA is dead in Canada. Those cities only have good Canadian OTA because they are home to flagship stations and production facilities for Canadian networks.
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post #842 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-26, 06:27 PM
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I disagree with the reason why those cities have Local OTA stations.The real reasons are simsub rights and US OTA competition

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #843 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-26, 08:46 PM
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That's not the only reason. Another is that stations in large urban areas, such as the GTA make money while stations in smaller cities with less regional population don't. Broadcasters ignore the loss of viewers and advertisers smaller markets due to the lack of local content and poor quality of news broadcasts. Larger markets such as the GTA still have good quality local programming and news that draw national advertising due to carriage in other markets. That imbalance results in flagship stations looking profitable due to internal bookkeeping while other stations look like they are losing money. US OTA competition is not a big deal. It's there with or without Canadian OTA stations. It's well known that Bell regards their OTA stations as unwanted overhead but the CRTC has already ruled that shutting down OTA would also take away simsub rights. It's likely that Bell would still simsub on their own services but they would lose them on other BDUs.
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post #844 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-27, 11:03 AM
 
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It's well known that Bell regards their OTA stations as unwanted overhead.
Then why did Bell turn on CKVP-DT when CHCJ-DT is in the same area?

Do they want to sell CKVP's RF 42?
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post #845 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-27, 11:42 AM
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Bell didn't want those stations. They wanted the CITY-TV network. They purchased CHUM which included the CITY-TV network and the A-network. Rogers was then going to buy the A-network which included CKVP-DT. The CRTC said that Bell could not own both CTV and CITY-TV due to rules against ownership of two stations in the same market. As a result, Rogers got CITY-TV network and Bell got the A-Network. Bell has been whining and pouting about it ever since. Bell's idea was probably to own two stations in every major city so it could dominate OTA and the broadcasting of US TV shows in Canada. When they couldn't do that, they started threatening to shut down all the A-network stations in order to get concessions from the CRTC. CHCJ-DT was later launched in order to provide better coverage of the GTA, by CTV2 (formerly the A-Network) since that is a critical market.

Then Bell got the idea that they were going to shut down all their OTA stations and apply to the CRTC to keep simsubs for the two OTA networks they own. The CRTC killed that idea as well. Bell has embarked on a campaign of acquiring as many broadcasting interests as the CRTC will allow. That includes launching CraveTV and using it in an attempt to expand their BDU market share. The CRTC put a stop to that as well. Don't know what Bell is planning next but, if past actions are any indication, it's not likely to be in the best interests of Canadian consumers or well liked by the CRTC.
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post #846 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-27, 04:36 PM
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Bell applied and got CHCJ and CKVP OTA license to obtain Simsub rights in Hamilton/ Niagara areas.This was stated in their applications.They stated this was needed to allow CKVR to be viable.CRTC technical rules about not having 2 English OTA in a market are meet.This rule pointless in a BDU dominated market.

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post #847 of 858 (permalink) Old 2017-12-27, 08:46 PM
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Right. CKVR was the channel acquired by the Chum purchase and CKVP was added later to extend CKVR coverage. At any rate, it just points out how Toronto centric Bell has become because they had just shut down A-Channel stations in other markets and were threatening to shut down more in an effort to blackmail the CRTC to obtain local news programming grants. It seems like every time the CRTC makes a ruling then Bell devices some scheme to subvert it. This was their way of getting full GTA coverage for CKVR after being denied a second station on the CN tower.
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post #848 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-18, 08:43 AM
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Looks that OTA popularity is dying. I don’t see any new antennas appearing in my neighbourhood and many that are there are in need of repair badly, so they are probably not being used.
To me it seems that $15 IPTV services are taking over any interest in OTA.
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post #849 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-18, 08:24 PM
 
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You may be correct, but I hope not. The CRTC affirmed its intent to have OTA continue, here:

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/television/services/local.htm

That being said, I do think it is up to people like us to "spread the gospel" so to speak. I do believe a lot of people out just plain don't know what free content is available to them. Especially for low income people and seniors on fixed income. We need to get out there and help these folks.

Additional, this could also be something that could appeal to millennials as a "hack" for free HDTV.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/millenn...nna-1501686958

It may also be a good idea to set up some kind if "FREE TV" day in May, perhaps during the Stanley Cup playoffs. Organize FREE TV "protests" across Canada, and tell CBC about it. The protests will include setting up TV's in public places showing the NHL playoffs over the air on CBC. Make a big deal how companies like Bell and Rogers don't want Canadians to know that they can get this for free. Maybe get ClearStream antennas to sponsor the event (and we can use their antennas). Or maybe a local antenna installer who may see an opportunity to increase business.

Keep the faith! Spread the word!

What do you all think?

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post #850 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-19, 05:53 PM
 
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I don't know, bev fan, I see new antennas popping up all the time. And several people I work with are using antennas, either indoor or outdoor, along with a few friends of mine. Granted, all the aforementioned people (myself included) live in Toronto and are in a pretty sweet spot when it comes to both Canadian and American channels, but it shouldn't be just us who can pull in high-quality TV for free (the way nature intended it).
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post #851 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-19, 06:10 PM
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@keithr386 : OTA will only grow if there are many sources available in a given area. It works for Toronto and S. Ont. and has worked there since the beginning of Canadian broadcasting. However, in the part of Canada where I now live there is only the CBC and CTV (the latter if you're lucky). We are also supposed to be able to get Global but I've never gotten more than a broken up mess.

As for a free TV day including the hockey playoffs, I suspect that you would quickly run afoul of CRTC/NHL/and other broadcast restrictions once you set up your TV/screen. The broadcasts are legally for your personal use only. My suspicion is that your idea would get tangled in legalese and red tape very quickly.
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post #852 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-19, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by frisbeepilot View Post
I don't know, bev fan, I see new antennas popping up all the time. And several people I work with are using antennas, either indoor or outdoor, along with a few friends of mine. Granted, all the aforementioned people (myself included) live in Toronto and are in a pretty sweet spot when it comes to both Canadian and American channels, but it shouldn't be just us who can pull in high-quality TV for free (the way nature intended it).
Sure there is still some interest in OTA but I know too many people who have antennas on the roof but subscribe to $15 IPTV service.
I have antenna on the roof as well but subscribe to Bell Fibe TV so having antenna does not mean it is being used. If I can not get good discount from Bell I may start using it again.
Even on this forum there have been very few OTA posts recently.
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post #853 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-19, 09:06 PM
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I would say about 15 years ago, it was difficult to find places that sold quality TV antennas, but with the digital changeover, we saw a resurgence in OTA with antennas now available at local computer stores. You also have stores now that deal mostly with OTA products, see Save and Replay, and also Antennas Direct. If these types of stores/companies are still doing well, I would say OTA seems to be viable. Sure chatter on the various blogs has probably died down since the changeover heydays, as the awareness of OTA has plateaued. And good point on using your antenna as a bargaining chip with Bell.
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post #854 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-20, 08:21 AM
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I am pretty sure that if Bell and Rogers have their way, those pirate IPTV services will stop working and OTA will become once again one of the main topics on this forum.
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post #855 of 858 (permalink) Old 2018-02-22, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by reidw View Post
As for a free TV day including the hockey playoffs, I suspect that you would quickly run afoul of CRTC/NHL/and other broadcast restrictions once you set up your TV/screen. The broadcasts are legally for your personal use only. My suspicion is that your idea would get tangled in legalese and red tape very quickly.
Fair enough, which is partly why I said to work WITH the CBC to see what could be done. Maybe there is anohter way.

I know only a few areas get US feeds as well, but even so, there is enough content that people watch anyway which is available on the Canadian networks, and available to the majority of the Canadian population. As Bell likes to point out. of the 150 most popular shows in teh USA, 147 available on Canadian networks.
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