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Popularizing OTA DTV In Canada

248K views 860 replies 222 participants last post by  rob50312 
#1 ·
Went to my local Future Shop store to ogle the big-screen TVs....(that LG 60 inch plasma looks pretty nice) and what did I see below the HD gear? This sign, which I consider misleading to say the least:

"Three things you need to receive HDTV:

1) HDTV ( I assume they mean the monitor)

2) HD Satellite or Cable box

3) HD Programming"




Not a word about the *FREE* OTA digital content available to anyone with an ATSC tuner and a decent antenna....(none of which they seem to carry, of course....)

;)

It makes me wonder how much of a kickback FS/BB is receiving from Shaw/Rogers/ExpressVu and Starchoice.....????

:mad:

Just my $0.02.....
 
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#77 ·
Great letter Blake, and just a tip: I would insert a new Paragraph 1 that is directly about FS/BB that gives an introductory overview (not very detailed) about why your letter is directly important to them. If you slip in something about how this could pick up their sales figures or get more customers in the door they'll definitely read more carefully. Then just add a paragraph later in the letter that spells out those ideas a bit more. In each version of the letter that you send, replace "retailer" with Future Shop, Best Buy, The Source, Wal-Mart, etc. as appropriate. ;)
 
#78 ·
I might get flamed mightily for this since everyone here is so pro-OTA. But here is my opinion on this letter.

Your letter is too long. It meanders about and does not get to the point quickly enough. What is your point exactly? I'm struggling to find it quickly.

Bottom line, how is selling OTA at Bestbuy/Futureshop going to help them make more money? They do not give a hoot about the state of OTA in Canada. They do not care about how OTA is lagging behind the States. They do not care no specific date has been set to shutdown OTA analog in Canada. They just won't care and I don't blame them.

They want to know:
- Profit potential? (what type of margins are they going to make?)
- Market size? (how many customers will find this useful?)
- Market penetration/saturation?
- Market demand?
- Market growth rate?
- Market distribution? (Toronto? And where else really right now? That is a single small market. Bestbuy markets nationally - they offer a homogenous product in all stores. Selling OTA in Toronto only is not going to work for them.)
- Oh yes, I'll just say profit potential again.

It is not their resposibility to evangelize OTA. (That would cost a lot of money.) They are already selling a lot of HD capable equipment. The bottom line is how much more HD equipment will they actually sell if they start marketing OTA? Is it enough to justify the cost and effort?

Letters like the above do not spin things in a way that speaks to their corporate values and responsibilities. (Profit, market share.) While they may seem cold-hearted, their final responsibility is to their shareholders.

Despite what many think, these organizations are actually usually run by pretty smart people. They are not stupid, and will actually address a market segment if it makes sound business sense. If you can provide them with information to build a business case then that helps them. Unfortunately, letters like the one above will just end in a trash can very, very quickly.

I hate seeming so negative as I think OTA digital is awesome, and I encourage my friends to try it out. And I help out my friends one by one to get them setup. That is the only way to really make the market grow to the point where you might get a major like Bestbuy interested.

Cheers.
 
#80 ·
stampeder said:
We seem to be revisiting familiar topics that are seen in the following threads linked below. We'll keep this thread focused on the specific topic of popularizing OTA in Canada, where about %70 of the population now have access to OTA DTV in some quantity (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver areas).
My goodness, you people must be breeding like rabbits! 70% of population in Canada is like 22 million people, while in 2005 (according to StatCan) there lived only around 11.3 mln in the entire metrpolitan areas of these 3 cities. :)

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a.htm?sdi=metropolitan areas
 
#81 ·
Arthur Dent said:
My goodness, you people must be breeding like rabbits! 70% of population in Canada is like 22 million people, while in 2005 (according to StatCan) there lived only around 11.3 mln in the entire metrpolitan areas of these 3 cities. :)

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo05a.htm?sdi=metropolitan areas
I would imagine the Toronto area would cover all of the Niagara peninsula also the area's including Kitchener Waterloo Guelph stretching down into Simcoe Brantford Hamilton etc as we all can get the same signals from Toronto, Buffalo, Hamilton, Kitchener etc, I would imagine the same would apply to the surrounding area's of the larger cities. That will bring up the stats up to date so to speak.
I cant say anything about Calgary, never visited there, but did hear it is sort of in the technological backwaters electronically speaking :)
 
#83 ·
tricky said:
That will bring up the stats up to date so to speak.
I cant say anything about Calgary, never visited there, but did hear it is sort of in the technological backwaters electronically speaking :)
So, do you claim that 22 million of the population lives in the metropolitan areas of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver (as the post that I'm replying to stated), or you are trying to come up with some other numbers about something else - because I didn't see any. Neither did I see any point in your post.
But you are right, you guys are so lucky to live in the most technologically advanced area of Canada - you have 3 OTA Canadian stations (all 60 of you owners of digital OTA receivers), and North America's first DAB radio stations - all 3 DAB listeners are also members of this forum :) I'll have to come visit Ontario some day to see those landmarks of technology, but until then I can only dream while watching them on ExpreessVu :(
 
#84 ·
Canadian areas with OTA DT are almost always the ones with direct access to U.S. airwaves. That's the geographical reality of the situation. Calgary is a looooong way from any Montana OTA stations, so what can you do? Watch DT on Shaw, BEV or SC. 'Nuff said.

Arthur, look at the map and decide whether the areas outside the red circles would make up 8 to 10 million people. If so (and I'm positive its true) then you can surmise like so many others have that about 70% of Canadians have access to DT OTA in varying signal levels for which reception gear is available.
 
#86 ·
hmm

You're right about my letter, it is long, and I don't get to the point quick enough. I haven't sent that letter to anyone yet, I just wanted to post it here and get some feedback on it. Thank you for that. I will be editing it before I send it out.

With regards to recent posts, I'd say that without major retailers behind OTA, Canada will never get 40%-70%+ (whatever you think it is) population saturation. It's the chicken and egg scenario. Only here it's DT stations, retailers, viewers/consumers (depending on your point of view). Stations want DT viewers to justify costs of going DT. Viewers want HD but don't know about the best and cheapest kind, DTV. And in the middle you've got retailers only selling HD cable and HD satellite. Viewers don't know about DTV because stations don't plug the fact that they're DT, and retailers don't promote DTV as a way to get HD. Which reduces the number of DT viewers. Which reduces the station's desire/speed/plans to go DT.

As for profitability, you only need to look as far as Stampeder's "how much did you spend on OTA" poll. Even with the majority of the HD market in the dark, the small group of who know of DTV and have DTV have forked out big bucks on their OTA setups. Why? It's the never-ending drive to pull in distant signals, and to get them stronger than before. Heh, it's kind like computer gamers. What's fast today is slow tomorrow, and it drives the desire to upgrade (shelling out big coin to stay current). And that poll only counts STBs, antennas, mounts, and cables. If he were to count TV's with built in ATSC tuners, it would be huge (not that you'd want to upgrade your tv as often as other OTA equipment).

When I bought my $4000 HDTV from futureshop, they didn't tell me about my TV's ATSC tuner ('tho I knew all about it), or didn't try to up-sell me an antenna. I later told them what I plan to do to get HD and they looked at me like I had three eyes, claiming Vancouver didn't have DT stations yet (this was Dec '05).
 
#89 · (Edited)
Futureshop conversions

well I sent out my revised letter to BestBuy / Futureshop CHQ last week. Today I walked to the downtown Futureshop, and educated a home theater salesmen about DTV. He now knows about it, but I think he's still a skeptic. He needs to see it to believe it, I think. Before leaving I asked him to tell his department manager, if not store manager about what I told him. If he does or doesn't, I'm going to go there with antenna and cable in hand and hopefully I'll get 60%+ indoors. I won't leave until I convert the whole sales staff. However, I need to pick a good time to demo it, I want a time when something on CBC or CTV is in HD, so they're blown away with its digital "free"ness.

He first thought I was talking about DirectTV. Then thought that DTV was only for the US. Then he said, why would we want to demo that, when we're trying to make money on HD cable and HD sat boxes? I told asked him, do you work for Shaw, Bell or Star Choice? He said no. I felt I might have been a bit harsh, catching him in his ways, so I took it down a notch and said, I don't mean to chew your ass, I used to work for Futureshop myself, I know you get good GM from them. But brought it around by saying, you sell TVs with ATSC tuners, you owe it to your customers to inform them about their TVs full value. He agreed.
 
#90 ·
I totally agree there is a real misunderstanding about OTA and HD!

I have seen with the few people I have influenced in the last year and the ones that I have not it is an uphill battle!

In one case... I gave a colleage an old pair of rabbit ears... and he got 3 channels with his built in ATSC Tuner.... He was WOW'd... when to BB/FS cannot remember which one and bought a HDTV indoor antenna???

HE said the salesmen told him this is exactly what he needed.... So I talked to him some more and got him to return and to buy a CM4221 from Yaamon.

Then he was wow'd again... Just leaning it up in a wall in the house he was up to like 9 channels! Now he was done... he arranged to have it installed properly outdoors and said he was up to 22 channels(now down to about 19)
He is completely sold on it now!

I have tried to tell others.. some are willing to try... others need to be convinced with their own eyes!

I know with my wifes cousin he was an early adopter of a DLP sammy a few years back.... he has only watched SD on it. HE believes that he will only get HD with cable. I tried to convince him I have since recieved my HD set with builting ATSC tuner... so I think he is going to be floored.

His brother has been over since I got the set... he too was an early adopter... now he even wants to buy another set like mine. Since he does not have an ATSC tuner he is not completely sold on OTA for himself.

I think what I have learned through all this...
Is that people really need to be shown what they can get... no one is showing them in Stores...

So this is kind of like tell two friiends who tell two friends etc.... escept it is show two friends and they can show two friends etc...

This is they way I am trying to influence the people around me that I know... by showing them what is possible.
 
#91 ·
I can't think of a more worthless waste of time than trying to educate personnel at big box electronics stores about the items they sell. The last thing they've been hired for is to properly inform their customers. Their primary concern is to SELL, SELL and SELL stuff, and high-profit stuff has priority. They are mostly clueless about 50%-60% of the modern technology they sell, but that's not something that would make their managers worry.
Also, it's not FS/BB that is the problem - CRTC is. CRTC, at least in its long running Liberal Party version, never cared about techhnical innovation in telecommunications, only about preserving the business interests of big Canadian media (especially those friendly to the L party). They refused to mandate introduction of OTA digital TV brodcasts, like FCC did in the US - this is why there's hardly any OTA Canadian stations now and hardly any mention about OTA at Future Shop. And Canadian telecommunications in general lagging behind US.
 
#93 ·
Arthur Dent said:
Their primary concern is to SELL, SELL and SELL stuff, and high-profit stuff has priority. They are mostly clueless about 50%-60% of the modern technology they sell, but that's not something that would make their managers worry.
That is true. But I'm going to try to get OTA gear in the store at least. Get them to "Sell Sell Sell" OTA stuff too :)

Arthur Dent said:
CRTC, at least in its long running Liberal Party version, never cared about techhnical innovation in telecommunications, only about preserving the business interests of big Canadian media (especially those friendly to the L party). They refused to mandate introduction of OTA digital TV brodcasts, like FCC did in the US - this is why there's hardly any OTA Canadian stations now and hardly any mention about OTA at Future Shop. And Canadian telecommunications in general lagging behind US.
I'll give you an Amen as well. Let's hope that the CRTC still sees value in OTA, and decides later this year to set a cutoff date to go digital.
 
#94 ·
the latest run around

A couple days ago I received a letter from PC MP Bev Oda. Although I'm thankful that I got a reply, I can't help but feel that nobody is wanting to pick up the pace of Canadian DTV. Every polititian I've contacted seems indifferent, content with the slow pace, and see nothing wrong with it staying slow. The point I wanted to drive home to the Minister (of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women), was that with Canadian DTV station's ERP being so low, Canadians will be watching much more powerful US DTV stations instead. That point was heard, as she forward my letter to the Minister of Industry Canada.

Thank you for your correspondence of April 27, 2006, forwarded by the Office of the Prime Minister regarding over-the-air high-definition television (HDTV) in Canada.

In its efforts to draft a complete digital and HDTV transition policy framework for Canada, the CRTC has already published five public notices on this subject. More specifically, Broadcasting Public Notice CRTC 2002-31 is the CRTC's general regulatory framework overseeing the transition of over-the-air broadcasting from analog to digital and HDTV in Canada. In its policy, the CRTC states, among other things, that digital technology will be treated as a replacement for analog technology and that a voluntary, market-driven transition model, with no mandatory deadlines, is the most appropriate approach for Canada.

This in fact was the model suggested by Canadian Digital Television, the Canadian television industry's association guiding the migration to digital. I suggest that you contact your local television station to enquire about future HDTV deployment in your area.

While the Department of Canadian Heritage is responsible for overall broadcasting policy and legislation, the CRTC is responsible for the licensing, regulation and supervision of all aspects of the Canadian broadcasting system. The Commission was established by Parliament under the Broadcasting Act as an autonomous body that operates independently of the Government and is responsible for its own day-to-day operations and decisions.

In view of the autonomy of the CRTC, you might wish to share your concerns on this issue directly with the Secretary General of the Commission at the address provided in the enclosure.
 
#95 ·
blakew said:
...you sell TVs with ATSC tuners, you owe it to your customers to inform them about their TVs full value. He agreed.
My big laugh is the Sony store here in Toronto. They have a US made ATSC external decoder hooked up to the HDTV's to demonstrate the vast improvement over regular TV. They don't sell the ATSC unit here, and when I asked, they told me it's because they are not availible in Canada. There is no market demand.

I tried to explain that you are selling a TV showing OTA channels, then why would you say there is no demand. Why not show them Rogers or Bell. He came back with it's too expensive and the picture quality isn't as good.

Kind of makes you want to laugh and cry at the same time.
 
#96 ·
The Sony Store is my next target. Instead of talking to some lowly sales associate, I'm just sending letters to the store managers (as is the case with the other big box retailers). Educating them on why they should support DTV, even if there are so few channels available.
 
#98 ·
Futureshop and Best Buy ads

Every week I see their new flyers, and every week, I shake my head. I find their "requires HD source" to be misleading. I've e-mailed them about it, and why it's wrong to put that next to a TV with a ATSC tuner, as an ATSC tuner is capable of decoding a HD signal.

I got the feeling my email fell on deaf ears. It seems they only want people to know of HD cable, and HD satellite, yet they'll supersize your purchase by suggesting you get the HDTV with a built-in tuner.

I call on all DHC'ers, OTA viewers or otherwise, to email FS: service@futureshop.com and remind them of the possible customer confusion. If enough people write them, they will change their marketing mishap. It's in the best interest of everyone who shops there to know what is, or isn't required to get HD.
 
#100 ·
stampeder said:
Costco thankfully seems to identify ATSC tuner-equipped models, but who knows whether customers even understand what that's about...
I was in my local (Ajax) Costco store last weekend. Yes, they have specs on all the different models that includes whether or not it has an ATSC tuner, But they still have a bigger sign that says 'Requires HD Programming, satelite or cable'.

I tried to ask a salesman and he didn't understand what i was talking about. I gave up. But we did get our film developed while we waited....
 
#101 ·
OTA antenna demo at BestBuy Surrey

For those that have not seen OTA in real life, the BestBuy store in Surrey has a fairly large antenna on their roof and wired to the store. I was in the store today and found it was plugged into a 60" HP HDTV. It's able to pull in CBCHD, CTVHD and some analog. If you have been curious about OTA in the Lower Mainland, go check it out before making a purchase, it will cost you nothing.

I hope 2007 brings better reception to all, but especially us in the Lower Mainland cuz we sure would enjoy it :)
 
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