Here comes the UHF Channel "Repack" for OTA - Page 10 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #136 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 12:05 PM
 
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Why? Do you know of ANY Buffalo area stations moving to low VHF?

Perhaps it might be best to simply just chill out for a while, it will be the end of next month before all of the new channel assignments are known. No need for hyper-ventilating over what may or may not be needed.

As I noted on a different forum this morning, so far there's one religious broadcaster in Ohio and one or two PBS stations that have announced they're going to low-V in return for a cash payment. That's it as far as released information goes. Just sit back and wait for results that immediately relevant to your location.
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post #137 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 12:58 PM
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If a broadcastor is getting money they are forced onto VHF.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #138 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 01:02 PM
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Whos getting money that owns in Buffalo ?

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #139 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
If a broadcastor is getting money they are forced onto VHF.
Um, no.

If they're getting money and still remaining on the air as an individual licensee, they VOLUNTEERED to go to VHF in return for the cash. No one was "forced" to participate in the auction. There is a profound difference.


Sit back and wait for actual information.
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post #140 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 02:56 PM
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Nonetheless, I think that the number of Lo-VHF and Hi-VHF Assignments will indeed INCREASE, since DTV Channels can be assigned on Adjacent Channels, whereas with Analog they could NOT....and recall that MANY of the old Legacy Lo/Hi-VHF Channel users RETURNED to their ORIGINAL Channel Assignments when Analog was shut down, perpetuating the "less frequent use" of Adjacent Channel Assignments in the VHF Bands....except for some Low Power, mostly "Special Interest" Channels.

Also note that Dielectric's NEW, Hi-VHF Antenna [now with CIRCULAR POLARIZATION for Mobile Reception] covers the ENTIRE Ch7-13 Band, with Tunable Filters that permit not only ADJACENT Channel usage, but can also support MULTIPLE Channels in the SAME Antenna:
http://www.dielectric.com/news/diele...pectrum-repack

If they bought the Channel Assignments, this would permit say the Major Networks in L.A. on Ch7/9/11/13 [ABC, KCAL Local Sports, Fox & MyN, each now on a SEPARATE TOWER] to add up to THREE Adjacent ATSC 3.0 Adjacent Channels by swapping their existing Hi-VHF Antenna with a New Adjacent Channel Type [Even Better, add THREE new ATSC 3.0 Channels to just ONE of the existing Hi-VHF Towers.] So hopefully NO NEED for a NEW TOWER....just add a New Exciter/Transmitter and revised Waveguide Assembly):
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLook...Mount%20Wilson [Search Vicinity of Mount Wilson]

Note that NYC is in a similar situation with High Power Transmitters only on Ch7/9/11/13 [and much lower Power in-between]:
http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLook...9-4&sZip=10118 [Search vicinity of Empire State Bldg Zipcode]
Note that the 1-WTC Antenna [RFS Antennas 662-16D for Hi-VHF] uses an array of 16 FULL-BAND Hi-VHF Antennas [now with CIRCULAR POLARIZATION], which facilitate MULTIPLE Transmitters, incl. Adjacent Channel Assignments with an appropriate set of RF Filters. Although barely used today, it is likely to become the new home for ATSC 3.0 Transmitters due to space constraints in the old ESB:
http://81.3.15.2/WebSearchECat/datasheets/pdf/?q=662CP

I've read that Empire State Bldg will continue to be used as the BACKUP Location....after the Fall of the original WTC and it's collection of Transmitters, ESB was upgraded with new ATSC 1.0 Equipment, incl. Dielectric TF-3MT, a [Multi-Transmitter] Lo-VHF FULL-BAND Antenna for Ch 4/5, somewhat similar to TF-3DC (Dual Channel) version shown on pg19 in fol. Dielectric Catalog. Vertically Stacked DeltaWing Reflector Panels are mounted on four sides of the Tower, similar to Multi-Channel, Full-Band Hi-VHF Dielectric TF Series shown on pg31...but both of these are HORIZONTALLY POLARIZED:
http://www.dielectric.com/wp-content...ress_ready.pdf
https://www.esbnyc.com/sites/default...case_study.pdf [Empire State Bldg Upgraded Antenna System]
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Last edited by holl_ands; 2017-02-25 at 04:43 PM.
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post #141 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 03:10 PM
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You are correct they are not forced onto VHF but they can choose cash instead of returning to another UHF channel. All broadcasters are all forced off channels 36 to 50.Lets hope the new VHF assignments go straight ASTC 3.0 because VHF ASTC 1.0 performs poorly.One channel gone so far for me.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #142 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 04:28 PM
 
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What channel are you talking about Rob50312?

I think the repack won't have much effect on us, case in point the number of diginets that are in the planning stages or released recently. Broadcasters are in this for the long term (not Canadian mind you) and see the potential that the new standard offers.

The Canadian broadcasters (BDU's) would love nothing more than to be able to block US signals and turn off their transmitters forcing all us OTA'ers to become subscribers.
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post #143 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 04:59 PM
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Canadian repack policy stipulates our UHF stations will remain on UHF.Sinclair is receiving money to move.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #144 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-25, 07:46 PM
 
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For ANY station ending up on low-VHF or moving from UHF to any VHF channel, you have to remember that they were incentivized to accept a VHF allocation, they are being forced to go "down low". There's a HUGE difference. One is a voluntary choice, the other is not.

The correct channel range for relocation is 38-51, not 36 to 50. Any station currently licensed on channels 38-51 (there are no channel 37s) will be forced to relocate to a lower channel. The new assignment will still be UHF unless they took the bribe... er, incentive payment.
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post #145 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-26, 08:38 PM
 
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Dumb question

This might seem like a silly question, but if some of the broadcasters go back to VHF frequencies, will there be any antenna manufacturers left that will build VHF lo and VHF hi antennas?

I retired my big Delhi VHF LPDA with the hope I would never see it rise again. Looks like I might have to rebuild it.

Delhi SFA 1483, Antennacraft Suburban VHF, CM7778
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post #146 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-02-27, 09:25 AM
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It's not a dumb or silly question.

There are several manufacturers that are capable of making an antenna for VHF 2-13, but they will not go into production unless they think they can sell enough of them to make a profit.

Meanwhile, there are combo antennas available now that cover 2-13 and UHF.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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post #147 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-03-20, 09:38 PM
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some preliminary information, being collected by NAB, as voluntarily reported to NAB by some member stations... They have a disclaimer saying it may not be 100% accurate...and that no one is obligated to report anything prior to the FCC publishing final auction and repack results.
Searchable Clearinghouse | National Association of Broadcasters

As an example, thus far only 3 Buffalo stations have voluntarily reported any changes.
WKBW 38 ->34
WNYO 49 -> 16
WUTV 14 -> 36

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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post #148 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-03-20, 09:53 PM
 
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I see WHAM Rochester is moving from channel 13 to channel 9. May present some challenges with CTV Toronto?
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post #149 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-03-20, 11:18 PM
 
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I wonder what will happen to CITS with WUTV going to 36. Two high-power stations 45 miles apart on the same channel?
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post #150 of 265 (permalink) Old 2017-03-21, 06:49 AM
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Looking at existing coverage, it doesn't look like WHAM gets to Toronto, and
CFTO Toronto doesn't get to Rochester. But yeah, will have to get used to the tighter
frequency re-use. In practice, today I get RF 13 from Kingston occasionally, much more than I have ever heard from RF 13 in Rochester
(close to never). So I am hopeful that an RF 9 from Rochester, won't overcome an RF 9 from Toronto in my area. If not, I'll get a better Yagi.
We will just have to wait and see what shakes out.

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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