700 MHz LTE Interference with ATSC? - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-13, 12:27 AM
 
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This may be a little off topic, but somewhat relevant.

In Oshawa, Ontario, the UOIT and Durham College upgraded their Bell Internet Wireless signal earlier this year. It knocked out residential wireless service all over the area, except for those who used Bell for Internet service.

Residential customers who used Rogers, etc... lost their wireless capabilities within their homes.

I haven't heard the final outcome, except that some people switched to Bell to correct the problem.
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-13, 11:42 AM
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I'd suspect that either Bell or UOIT and Durham College did something illegal to cause these issues. I'd be contacting Industry Canada to report it.

Majortom, I've seen major issues with cable egress. However, it is much less common than it was at one time. When McLean Hunter was still operating, I could pick up their FM signals while driving down the street. I highly doubt that cable egress would cause sporadic signal loss across a wide band of frequencies. The issue in post #1 is more likely to be defective equipment, such as a bad preamp, or some strong local interference.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-13, 02:08 PM
 
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Before I installed a CM4221 and CM4228 combo in my attic, I used to have an RCA ANT751 hanging on the ceiling of my living room as a temporary measure (to have some TV channels while I was in the process of moving to my new house). Anyway, I have noticed that the channels would lose signal significantly whenever I'd activate any internet-based apps on my LTE cell phone (I'm with Fido, by the way).

This side effect of using LTE data was very consistent, but then again, the RCA ANT751 antenna was about 6 feet from the cell phone at the time. I would just avoid playing with the phone or checking e-mails if something interesting was on TV, lol!

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-13, 03:04 PM
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Did you have a preamp or distribution amp on the ANT751?
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-14, 03:47 PM
 
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Nothing... No preamp, just the antenna and a very short run of coax. There were no switches and only 7 feet of cable, so no preamps or amps were needed. The cell phone data interference was pretty clear though, especially on lower signal channels.

Now that I have my Channel Masters and a KT-200 preamp in the attic, I have zero issues. I suppose the cell data interference is very short range. Can't comment on LTE towers though, as I don't think there are any nearby.

Also, my area is bombarded with other neighbors WiFi signals, as my computers are able to detect at least 10+ wireless connections at any given time. That, plus I was also recently "blessed" with one of them "intelligent" WiFi Hydro meters and so were all the other neighbors (all single family dwellings). Still, despite all the WiFi bombardment, my OTA reception is rock solid.
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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-14, 05:21 PM
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FYI: Technical info re 4G/LTE is found in my earlier post, with frequency bands summarized in the subsequent post:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show....php?p=1389931

Since AT&T Cell Phones TRANSMIT on 704-716 MHz, they are the BIGGEST threat to DTV Reception.

I posted a set of summary charts describing the sensitivity of various DVB-T Receivers to LTE Interference...which became ineffective with more than about 10 MHz of frequency separation between LTE and DTV frequencies..."similar" results should apply to our 700 MHz 4G/LTE vs ATSC DTV:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files/emitodtv
More info found in the source document (UK Test in Euro 800 MHz LTE Band):
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin.../2010-0026.pdf

So unless you have a 4G/LTE Cell Tower within a couple miles of your location [many are in disguise], it's NOT a problem...and I would expect that some AT&T phones cause less interference to DTV than others.....

Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-14, 10:14 PM
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Keep in mind, these are Canadians, so they would be most interested in Rogers Phones, not the Rogers Cellsites... Since it is the Uplink transmission that is closest to UHF CH 51 and likely much closer physically to the OTA TV system, albeit bursty in nature and at much lower power. Rogers would be using

https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gs...g/sf10354.html
http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=816869

In the US, AT&T uses primarily lower B+C block, Verizon uses primarily Upper C Block. primarily meaning in most areas of the country but not all.


For Southern Ontario & Southern Quebec only
Where Uplink is the transmission from the phone to the network.
And Downlink is the transmission from the network to the phone.

Code:
Rogers Lower A&B        
Uplink        Downlink
UHF 52 & 53    UHF 57 & 58

Telus or Bell Lower C
Uplink        Downlink
UHF 54        UHF 59
This link is pretty useful also, if you can read the exact channel number in use from your phone, you can use it to
translate back to something humanly readable, ie Frequency in MHz. Supports most if not all wireless technologies in use worldwide.
http://niviuk.free.fr/lte_band.php

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-14, 10:58 PM
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^^^^ 700MHz licensing also varies by market in Canada...like I'm sure it does in the US.

DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct DB8e & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection. TiVo Roamio DVR
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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 2015-05-14, 11:46 PM
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yes of course... and that's why I re posted the links to the Canadian
700 MHz auction results...

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 2016-05-20, 01:49 PM
 
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it seems this is becoming more of a topic Channelmaster released their filter version CM3201 .I see a few out there inline .The CM7777HD has it built in and tune able (rated for indoor and outdoor use ).But the mount is completely different from traditional preamps such as the CM7778

I did find another unit now with the LTE build in the the preamp and tune able -

Focus Antennas Adjustable Gain Hamza Tv Antenna Amplifier with Built-In LTE Filter UHF/VHF/FM (HAMZA LTE-2)

I was wandering which is better suited for a simple install where you have a couple of tv's and want the LTE protection for the future ?
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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 2016-05-20, 03:57 PM
 
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Quote:
... and want the LTE protection for the future ?
In the future, LTE or similar will likely spread into the 600 MHz band which will make ALL of the current filters ineffective for the then new wireless frequencies.

Antennas Direct Tech Support
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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 2016-05-20, 08:31 PM
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But will make new filter designs more effective at today's 700 MHz LTE frequencies.
ie a future 600MHz filter will be more effective at 700 MHz than a 700 MHz filter is today.
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DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 2017-11-09, 03:13 AM
 
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It seems LTE filtering is being discussed again.

Anybody have something to update about the problem at the present time, the fixes (and their costs), urban TV reception like in Toronto, etc?

Should people be routinely adding in-line LTE filters to their systems?

BTW, is LTE emanations an FM reception problem too or is that band too far away?

Ben

midtown Toronto, DB4e, 60ft RG6, 8dB distr amp
FM: Sony STSA-50ES, Wine.6065, 40ft RG6
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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 2017-11-09, 07:54 AM
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FM runs 88 - 108 MHz. It's too far away.

I haven't lost my mind. It's around here...somewhere...
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