Severe OTA Interference From New Digital Services Tower - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #31 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 06:55 PM
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I would find someone with a spectrum analyzer, GPS, and a yagi, look for any signs of
pumped up out of band emissions, etc. Use the GPS to document the date,time,Lat,Long where the interference is occurring.
Use the yagi to zero in on the suspected source.

Last edited by majortom; 2011-02-17 at 06:59 PM. Reason: deleted the IC email comment, as it appears they're useless
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post #32 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 07:22 PM
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Industry Canada useless and installing cell phone panels so close to peoples home is dangerous and the practice should stop.Those panels are 10 feet from where someone sleeps.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #33 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 07:43 PM
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Had to lookup up the Canadian emission designations. Looks like the station
u posted is authorized for CDMA, and an Omnidirectional Antenna pattern (i.e 360 degree Beamwidth).

Can't think of any reason a cellphone provider would wanna use an Omnidirectional Antenna for CDMA unless they intended to cause interference with themselves? On purpose?? That'd be pretty dumb.
Those Panel antennas in ur photograph are not Omni directional Antennas. And I can't imagine any wireless OMNI antennas with an antenna gain of 15 dBi.

So, if the antennas on that building are supposed to be the antennas in that license description, maybe you have caught them in some form of violation already? Or more likely, I have no clue how to read Canadian
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post #34 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Those panels are 10 feet from where someone sleeps.
They look like they're installed OK to me. Very close to the edge of the roof parapit. Radiation pattern should be in front of them, not much below or above. So for a person to get within a few feet in front of them, where prolonged exposure might be a problem, they'd have fallen off the roof. About the only exposure they'd be concerned with would be the exposed splatter on the ground from falling.

Edit: Retract a little. Probably would have been better to avoid that corner where the building protrudes a bit. Kinda looks like the
antenna on the left is slightly above that. They should have put them more in the middle
of that building. Common sense says they should be at the edge of the roof, so noone can walk in front of them. Nor would they want the antenna pattern to get distorted or shadowed by the building.
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post #35 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 09:12 PM
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Majortom: Thanks for the clarification regarding modulation for LTE. Rogers Wireless was granted a license to test 700MHz spectrum. Presumably they've co-located a test site with an existing HSPA site.

DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct DB8e & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection
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post #36 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 09:14 PM
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Industry Canada useless and installing cell phone panels so close to peoples home is dangerous and the practice should stop.Those panels are 10 feet from where someone sleeps.
This isn't a problem if the output is low--and typically the ERP is quite low for urban cell sites.

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post #37 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 09:43 PM
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He is saying they are 1200 and 3000 watts and the fair amount of the signal will go into the unit below where it sticks out .I would not live there.Industry Canada should look into the matter and if its those cell panels then something should be done to protect channel 60.You can bet if something started interfering with those panels then Industry canada would do something.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #38 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-17, 10:15 PM
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here's an ERP / EIRP calculator I found (google).
http://www.sss-mag.com/calcdb.html
If ya take the ERP, 30 dBW -> 1000Watts,
seems kinda high for an urban cellsite to me, but what do I know?
Could imagine the license saying one thing, to account for a worst case, and
the operator doing something much less than that. i.e - will never exceed that 30.8 dBW.
If ya use that calculator and work backwards from ERP ->ANT gain-> some miniscule losses (0.5 dB)-> PA Power,
guessin roughly about a 60 Watt Radio. Can't imagine a Radio much higher than that, which might possibly
work out to 3000 watts ERP with that antenna gain. Where'd the 3000W number come from?

With Jase sayin it's a "License to test", might that explain what looks like misinformation there? Like someone just plugged anything in to some form?
Is a "License to Test" in Canada more like "go ahead do whatever ya want, cause we understand you don't even know what you wanna do yet"?
Guess I still can't read Canadian
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post #39 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 08:13 AM
 
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@rob50312 - I agree with your statement that installing those cell phone panels so close to where people sleep is dangerous and needs to stop.

Did you happen to hear CBC Radio's Sunday Morning show back on January 30th? They had a 1 hour discussion about the dangers of cell phone towers being so close to people. Link to the CBC Podcast below. 43 minutes into the January 30th Podcast, they start talking about the dangers of cell towers.

http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/pastpodcasts.html?25#ref25
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post #40 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Industry Canada useless and installing cell phone panels so close to peoples home is dangerous and the practice should stop.Those panels are 10 feet from where someone sleeps.
Wow, I guess you can save on heat this winter, It's like sleeping under an electric blanket!

In all seriousness, a kW from any sort of directional antenna at 8 feet is ridiculous. If they are in fact transmitting that much, you may have a real case with IC. Perhaps contact the local ham radio club and see if anyone has the equipment to come get a crude measure of ERP.

The dangers of cell phone towers in general, however, is just an indication of the sad state of science education in our country. "Mysterious radio waves" being sent out from these towers sound scary and it's easy to sell an invisible bogyman. There are plenty of dangers in our environment; it's counter productive to obsess about something as well understood and innocuous as radio waves. Those CBC reporters should learn some critical thinking skills, and then take a look at their car tailpipe if they want to find something that harms children.

Last edited by stampeder; 2011-02-18 at 12:48 PM. Reason: quote tags repaired
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post #41 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 12:57 PM
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Please focus on the RF/EMF issues in this situation and not on the media or the wider topic of the environment.

The gist of the story seems to be that regulatory oversight of these sorts of antenna installations is apparently vague, and the recourse for consumer complaints has been eliminated. I hope I'm wrong in those assumptions, but so far the situation does not seem that way.

I'm still creeped out about the harmonics in the piano strings!
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post #42 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 01:18 PM
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I know this post is a bit too political for this discussion board, but the hidden facts behind this topic are pertinent to this thread.

Being exposed to any level of continuous radiation is dangerous. [Just ask a radiologist who stands behind a lead-screen all day] A blip of x-ray now and then is acceptable over the short term, but continuous long term exposure even at low levels should definately be a concern to IC.

Cellular and Mobile are big business, and the IC has apparently had their big business blinders on a little too tight in recent years. It seems that it's become all about the money and getting in bed with big business, and not about the safety of the consumer or the residents. Big business is seemingly protected at all costs. Just follow the money! Simply put,.. IC is not doing their job in the best interest of Canadians.

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post #43 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 04:08 PM
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^^^^
The facts are X-rays are ionizing radiation, which does cause cancer. Cell phones, WiFi, microwave ovens, etc. use non-ionizing radiation, which has not been shown to cause cancer. However, there are other health risks if at sufficient power levels.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...
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post #44 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Here is the effect on my piano (in the video I turn the piano on, play a few keys, and then off - it is a $900 Yamaha piano)

http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/c...terference.mp4

I just built a "crystal radio" tuned to about 1 GHz. It is quite dramatic. With nothing more than a shotkey diode, a capacitor, an inductor, 6 inches of wire, and a piezo speaker, the speaker is loud enough to be heard across the room - no batteries required. I'll see if I can light up a lamp with this RF energy. If I can, then Im calling my MP and MPP.

I just want to add that this isnt like the ham radio guy next door occasionally running 1000 watts ERP, who has enough sense to point the main beam up and out of the way. This is continuous, non-stop 24/7, pulsed emissions at high power densities directed at my window.
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post #45 of 149 (permalink) Old 2011-02-18, 05:21 PM
 
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Here is the effect on my piano (in the video I turn the piano on, play a few keys, and then off - it is a $900 Yamaha piano)

http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/c...terference.mp4
Yikes! I dragged my roommate in here, and I cannot describe the expression on his face when he saw that.

Quote:
I just built a "crystal radio" tuned to about 1 GHz. It is quite dramatic. With nothing more than a shotkey diode, a capacitor, an inductor, 6 inches of wire, and a piezo speaker, the speaker is loud enough to be heard across the room - no batteries required. I'll see if I can light up a lamp with this RF energy. If I can, then Im calling my MP and MPP.
Any chance of a video of this? (Of both things, I guess.) Try attaching a diode to a multimeter and see what the voltage is in the air.

I am somewhat tempted to write this up and stick it on the front page of RabbitEars. Any thoughts on that?

- Trip
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