New wind farm is wrecking my OTA reception - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 2010-12-03, 07:04 PM
 
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rapido,
Thanks for the link.

Now that the leaves have fallen off all the trees for the winter, I can now see some turbines from ground level to the west and northwest. Reception is the same or even worse than in Sep. Put up a new new 91XG very directional UHF yagi antenna up around 30 feet on the roof at the beginning of Oct. It actually made the reception worse in many cases, especially if I point almost right at a turbine. Like looking through a pipe and at the other end someone is there waving their hands in front of the opening partially blocking it.

With no leaves also means that tree multipath can be totally ruled out. I'm going to capture some short video clips of 4-5 local analog stations and one digital station WDWO 18 Detroit to show the fluttering and digital dropout effects. Will also note the wind speed and direction at the time, though it doesn't really matter as they spin around 24/7. Tonight the wind has gone calm and what turbines I can see from the ground are still rotating.

Last month (Nov) i was up at ~40 feet AGL checking on another antenna setup pointed static towards Cleveland OH. For the first time I could actually see off in the distance to the east and northeast other wind turbines (southeast Kent county?) from here. I would guess those are 13-15+ miles away.

Other numerous analog stations are in that direction, like CHCH-TV on RF51. Lots of "fluttering" on them too. Either the local Cottam wind farm is reflecting these stations back to me from the NW-W or the emissions from the farther away turbines to the E and NE are also affecting stations that must go though them to get here.

We had a big strong tropo/fog event in the mid part of November for a week or so in the region and i found noticeable fluttering even in CIII-6 from Paris, Ontario. Turbine blades must be way longer than the TV CH 6 wavelength.

I know I can't be alone in what I am seeing in regards to Wind turbines/farms in this general area. As more and more of them are built, the complaints should grow. Just this week it was announced that Siemens will be building turbine parts (turbine towers) next fall in here in Windsor, On. Also another facility will start building blades for turbines in Tillsonburg (not too far from London, On) also beginning next fall. What is this? the wind turbine capital of North America already?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...=Google+Search

Last edited by stampeder; 2010-12-03 at 07:51 PM. Reason: political comments are only allowed in the Politics forum
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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 2010-12-03, 08:36 PM
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Hi Phil,

Curious if you can see them in your local weather radar like ya can here?

Check out the blobs in what's known as Wyoming County around here,
you'll see them as stationary blobs, might be buried in real radar echoes from
snow streaming by at the moment, but gets a point across, as those echoes
from the windfarms in western Wyoming County are always there and there is no
way to fix them radar echoes from showing up as bogus "precip".

http://www.wunderground.com/radar/ra...=9999&smooth=0
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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 2010-12-03, 09:14 PM
 
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They do show up on radar, but not everyday like those ones so close to BUF. More likely at night and especially when the air is more moist. Radar clear air mode shows it the most. Just look for 3 patches of non moving precip. One near Harrow, one around Cottam, and the largest one southwest of Chatham near the lake.
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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 2010-12-03, 09:55 PM
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I have a friend in the weather service that has been concerned about the effects of wind farms on radar for years. Unfortunately these things seem like steam rollers on detractors here. noaa the US weather service has a healthy discussion http://www.crh.noaa.gov/mkx/?n=windfarm. The effects on OTA are also well known.
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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-01, 10:47 PM
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ota_canuck, Just a completely random curiosity question on my part: Are there any new wind turbines in your vicinity?!?

DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct DB8e & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection
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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-01, 11:05 PM
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Exclamation Wind-Turbine flutter, blade reflections and multipath concerns!

Jase88,

Local Wind Turbines? Yes!, But I don't believe I am close enough to be concerned, unless the blades can somehow cause significant signal reflection pulses that could result in flutter or multipath issues.

These Dunnville turbine farms are about 1 mile southwest into the Port Maitland area near the Erie shores and there are some more turbines about 4miles southeast in Lowbanks near the Erie shoreline. My target markets are approximately 210░ west, 80░ east and 30░ north, so I am not recieving any signals that would pass directly through those turbine props.

They have all been on the hydro-one grid for about 1 year now.

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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-01, 11:43 PM
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Were you using OTA prior to these turbines coming online? And if so, did you notice any difference in reception?!

DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct DB8e & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-02, 12:07 AM
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There are wind turbines on this side of Lake Erie also, just so ya know....

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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-02, 12:35 AM
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Exclamation Wind turbines are signal killers.

I've been OTA since 1990! Ever since the cable company's negative billing days.

I have never noticed any reception changes since the turbines came to town , my before vs after reception results were insignificantly changed.

Over the past 4 years, I have watched these big turbines being trucked in, raised and go online.

I installed a converter box in a house down in Lowbanks a year ago, and it was a multipath, fluttering disaster. His house was about 300 yards from these 6 swirling monsters that were wide spread over a farmers field. He then went with satellite because there is no cable available in that area, and that was also a pixelating/signal dropout nightmare, but everyone of any authority will instantly dispute the suggestion that it has something to do with these Wind Turbines.

In Port Maitland, one of my clients, [a lawyer] had satellite for several years, and suddenly when all of these turbines went into service, his internet & TV reception went for a crap. The authorities again said the Turbines were not to be blamed. His Sat-Provider then told him it was because the trees had grown taller and then they sold him a friggin 40ft free standing tower. He still has the same problems, except he is now the proud owner of a free standing 40ft tower.
Yes, he is taking legal action against the BDU and against the AIM Power Gen Corporation.

There are further provincially approved plans for the construction of 176 turbines extending north to Highway 3 from Nanticoke east to Port Maitland. Haldimand county was not consulted by the province. Haldimand County is also considering taking legal action against the province [McGuinty liberals] to try and stop this secretly contracted multi-billion dollar Samsung deal.

So, to make a long story short,... if your close enough, these wind turbines are signal killers.
________________________
This is off topic, but worthy of a thread regarding any known radio spectrum signal interferences.

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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-02, 12:40 AM
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Thanks for the responses. Definitely something that relates to the reception of signals within the area where you reside. And in that context, germane to this thread (IMO).

After hearing about your issues with CHCH and other stations, I got to thinking about the wind turbines around the lake. Good to see that they don't appear to be killing anything for you...

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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-02, 04:32 PM
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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-03, 02:30 PM
 
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Yes, wind turbines kill a few birds. But tall office and condo towers (especially those with lights left on all night) kill tons of birds, and nobody seems to mind when they go up.

I can see how metal turbine blades would affect electromagnetic waves; so would any tall metal structure, for that matter. (It's one of the reasons why CBC Radio 1 moved from AM to FM in Toronto; the longer AM wavelengths produced huge "dead spots" of destructive interference in downtown TO, and FM produces much smaller ones.)

Maybe I'm just a tree-hugging nut-job, but I'd much rather have wind turbines and (relatively) clean energy with a few people's TV reception inconvenienced, as opposed to more pollution and greenhouse gases in everybody's atmosphere. Then again... if you're one of The Inconvenienced, this is a pretty frosty comfort.
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 2011-09-03, 04:29 PM
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I would believe that this type of interference, you're experiencing from the wind farm, would be similar if not the same 'signal scatter' that is cause when an aircraft passes overhead causing a second signal path with a phase delay.

Using multiple stacked antennas can help solve this problem....

Thread about 'Airplane Flutter'
"Airplane Flutter" Interference

My answer to 'Airplane Flutter' problem
"Airplane Flutter" Interference

Document about 'Airplane Flutter'
http://2003.iccas.org/Full_Paper/air...2003_5(19).pdf


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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 2014-06-17, 02:46 PM
 
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I had been trying to figure out what happened to my reception for Detroit channels in the past few years - and was told by the local antenna installer, it was wind turbines. We live right by Lake Erie, near Rondeau Park. Cleveland and London stations come in well, and even Toledo and Erie are often better than Detroit stations. The installer mentioned that the when the wind is still or blows from the south (ie the blades are parallel to a line between us and Detroit), reception is OK.

So - in the past few years since this issue has become apparent, has anyone tried anyway of getting around the issue? If the issue is due to reflections off the blades, would having a super-directional antenna - such as the the ganged CM4228 approach in http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANtennas/16bay.html work better? Or is there nothing that can handle the myriad of reflected signals.
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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 2014-06-18, 10:41 AM
 
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I can't speak to the ganged CM4228, however I have tried the CM 4250, a CM 3671 and a DBGH to pick up City TV (out of Paris, Ontario) to no avail. 9 turbines were setup 1 1/2yrs ago across the road from me, disturbing my signal. According to my tvfool I should be able to pick it up easily, however I am only able to get a scattered picture on good nights. http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...e1c66460946520

I don't know if this helps, but this has been my experience.
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