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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-10, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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Cool Home OTA Antenna Farms (using 3 or more)

intravino, are you using the 4228 and the 4221 antennas in different aims at the same time ?

Last edited by stampeder; 2009-11-12 at 02:17 PM. Reason: split from CM4221HD Hardware Hacks thread
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-11, 01:18 AM
 
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Cool Home OTA Antenna Farms (3 or more)

On my tower:

I have a 4228 six feet higher pointed at Vermont.

I have a 4221 three feet higger pointed at Montreal.

VHF/UHF Archer combo pointed at Montreal 15 feet higher on top.

A Delhi 10y13s on the chimney pointed at Vermont.

A Wingard HD-6000 FM pointed at Plattsburgh 5 feet lower on the tower.

And now my 4221HD that I don't know were to mount.

I am going Ballistic about OTA

See Post #381 in the Pimp My Gear thread for some photos: Pimp My Gear! (Photos of OTA gear)

Last edited by stampeder; 2009-11-12 at 02:19 PM.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-11, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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WOW ! So many un-similar antennas within one array. Sounds like your set-up could create much 'multipath'.

I have 3 CM4221 antennas ganged to cover 3 different broadcast tower sources. The top antenna is at 30ft and it's aimed at Toronto, there's another one mounted 25" below and it's aimed at Buffalo NY and another one that is about 6ft below is aimed at Erie PA.

I have ganged these 3 antennas with success, except I have one local Hamilton digital channel RF15.1 that gets wiped out by an analog RF15 co-channel from Grand Island.

Under certain weather conditions, the Erie channels can also become a problem because the side lobe of the second antenna sometimes picks up the signals from Erie,.. and that extra signal feed clashes with the reception of the antenna that is dedicated toward Erie PA. It's called 'multipath'. Most tuners can not deal with multipath signals very well. Digital tuners will become very confused with these multipath signals and you will get a no-signal or no-program message on screen. Analog tuner reception will get ghost images or snowy images.

With so many antennas in your array, you likely have a significant line loss factor as well as great potential for multipath or signal reflection problems.

Last edited by ota_canuck; 2009-11-11 at 02:06 AM. Reason: ht correction
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-11, 09:48 AM
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Intravino,

Quote:
I am going Ballistic about OTA

I think all your missing now is a Parabola
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-11, 12:01 PM
 
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Hey if I find a CM4251 it will be going up on a tripod on my roof : )

But I'm thinking of building one of the extreme gain antennas seeing that finding an original 4251 is next to impossible. ... not to mention a home built extreme gain antenna might survive our canadian winters (icing) better than the 4251
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-11, 12:09 PM
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morehp,

which one?
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-11, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
WOW ! So many un-similar antennas within one array. Sounds like your set-up could create much 'multipath'.
Not really, I have two mount, a 40 feet tower with a pole of 10 fee on the top, the Archer was installed there by the previous owner of the house. Two others are on the frame of tower at different locations. The FM antenna is near the roof. Plus there is one scanner antennas on a cross beam at about 40 feet and one scanner antenna top of the 10 feet pole.

And two on the other side on a chimney mount.

Quote:
with so many antennas in your array, you likely have a significant line loss factor as well as great potential for multipath or signal reflection problems.
I don't think so, I have different coax coming in different tuners. I have 4 tuners, Sanyo LCD, Samsung Plasma, Sony HD radio and Zenith CECB, all with their coax coming from their premap. If you look at my TVFOOL results, WVNY-DT is broadcasting not even 500 watts at my location, -7,9 dB NM and I get it 80 % of time. Why ? One of the reason is my 4228 is blocking a strong co-channel station in the opposite direction of WVNY and since I placed my 10y13s bellow it, I get it now with the SRC form Trois-Rivières blocked by the 4228 a bit.

Some users that have better TV Fool results them myself and get WVNY worst then me with the same Antenna and preamp.

I've been testing my setup since 18 months and I have previous experience with other type of antennas (CB, HAM, Scanner and Shortwave) plus I have 20 years experience as a Electronics Technologist, so I am not a Beginner.

I am having fun making all of this work and it's a bit of luck also. But I could run into MultiPath problems also becasue of this new 4221HD, you never know and I will see.
Quote:
I think all your missing now is a Parabola
I would love to get a CM4251, there is one in Pike River Quebec, but my neighbors would really freak out.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-12, 06:25 PM
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Hopefully Intravino's tower is equipped to handle the wind load...

DMX 68' tower, HyGain HAM 5 rotator, Antennas Direct DB8e & C5, Channel Master 7777 preamp, Siemens surge protection. TiVo Roamio DVR
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-12, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Multiple antenna array vs. multiple antenna non-array

An antenna is active even if there is cable connected to it.

Even if these multiple antennas are not directly harnessed together within an array,.. I have found that antennas mounted within a given distance, can interfere with other antennas and can have an effect on your reception. A few years ago [during the pre-historic analog period] my neighbour had a very large 15ft CM VHF/UHF antenna and rotor installed and when he rotated his antenna toward my antenna, CFTO would get snowy and fade away on my TV.

It could be caused by the broadcast signal re-radiation, signal re-flection, signal deflection, etc... I don't really know why it happens ?

In any case, multipath conditions can result in snowy picture and/or double images with analog broadcast reception and with digital broadcast reception, you will get reduced useable signal strengths, pixelation or in extreme multipath cases, you will have no useable signal at all.

Last edited by ota_canuck; 2009-11-12 at 06:58 PM. Reason: added title
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-12, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intravino View Post
I am going Ballistic about OTA
I've been having some fun with it, as well. I"ve got 100 acres and a home built into the side of a mountain. Surrounded 360 degrees by mountain tops with no line-of-sight to any transmitter. Closest is about 60 miles.

I had to install three different antenna sites to get all that is possible.

Site # 1 is 200 feet from my house on top of barn I built that also holds 5400 watts of solar panels. That just has a single Winegard VHF/UHF HD8200, Channel Master CM 7777 amp, and rotator.

Site # 2 is 350 feet from my house half-way a hill-top. Thirty foot tall 1 1/2" galvanized EMT pipe mounted to a pressure-treated 6" X 6". Has a DB8 UHF on top of a rotator, and a Wade VIP-307 VHF only antenna on a fixed mount below. Both joined by a Channel Master CM 7777 preamp. RG6 burial-grade coax in PVC conduit and buried. Half way home a 24 dB line amp is hooked in. I used 14/2 UF cable for the rotator.

Site # 3 is 550 feet from my house on the other side of the hill. Another 6" x 6" pole and 30 feet of EMT pipe for mast. On top is a pair of 91XGs, ganged side by side on a fixed mount. Below is a high-band VHF antenna (Antennacraft YA10-7-13). Below that is a low-band VHF antenna (Winegard YA 1026). All four antennas are joined to one coax via a low-high VHF joiner, a VHF/UHF joiner, and a diplexer for the ganged antennas. Preamp is a Research Commincations ultra-low noise 9262. Coax is flooed burial grade RG11, buried in PVC conduit. Half-way home is a 30 dB line amp.

All three antenna sites hook to a three-way coax box at home.
I get every channel on my TV Fool report down to those with a negative 30 noise-margin rating.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-12, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intravino View Post
On my tower: I have ... [lots of antennas]
Hey, now that I've finally taken down the original VHF-low dipole here, I think you've got one more antenna up there than we do here!

Next thing you know, you might get into hacking up an RF switching matrix to properly deal with them all. I'm currently working on the 4th generation of ours.

Cheers
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 2009-11-13, 10:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Hopefully Intravino's tower is equipped to handle the wind load...
We had 100 Km winds this past May. Nothing moved:

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites...-de-98-kmh.php

Quote:
Next thing you know, you might get into hacking up an RF switching matrix to properly deal with them all. I'm currently working on the 4th generation of ours
Interesting.

Quote:
Site # 1 is 200 feet from my house on top of barn I built that also holds 5400 watts of solar panels. That just has a single Winegard VHF/UHF HD8200, Channel Master CM 7777 amp, and rotator.

Site # 2 is 350 feet from my house half-way a hill-top. Thirty foot tall 1 1/2" galvanized EMT pipe mounted to a pressure-treated 6" X 6". Has a DB8 UHF on top of a rotator, and a Wade VIP-307 VHF only antenna on a fixed mount below. Both joined by a Channel Master CM 7777 preamp. RG6 burial-grade coax in PVC conduit and buried. Half way home a 24 dB line amp is hooked in. I used 14/2 UF cable for the rotator.

Site # 3 is 550 feet from my house on the other side of the hill. Another 6" x 6" pole and 30 feet of EMT pipe for mast. On top is a pair of 91XGs, ganged side by side on a fixed mount. Below is a high-band VHF antenna (Antennacraft YA10-7-13). Below that is a low-band VHF antenna (Winegard YA 1026). All four antennas are joined to one coax via a low-high VHF joiner, a VHF/UHF joiner, and a diplexer for the ganged antennas. Preamp is a Research Commincations ultra-low noise 9262. Coax is flooed burial grade RG11, buried in PVC conduit. Half-way home is a 30 dB line amp.
You have a heavy duty setup

Last edited by intravino; 2009-11-13 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Link for wind speed
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 2010-11-01, 11:29 AM
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so far this is my best set-up (work in progress) looks like a multi antenna set up with directional antennas will be the way to go....


the top curved M4 is facing 2nd edge ottawa channels, and gets them pretty well with amp,

the middle and bottom ones are from a curved M8 i split up (the M8 was very good, but VERY sensitive to localized interference). the middle one is facing strong NY's, the lower one is facing Mt-Mansfield 2nd edge using an attenuated amp


the 3 go into an A-B-C switch

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